REVISED: Under 185lb Tournament, FINALS # 1 Rocky Marciano vs # 2 Jack Dempsey

If Lyle Fitzsimmons has a vote to the IBHOF, anybody can.

 

Chris,with respect,don't distort the facts pertaining to "EVIDENCE IN COURT" to win an argument: to wit,[I can go legal too].
1-You say an eywitness [20 years ago] : The boxing experts that picked Dempsey over Marciano were polled in 1952-5 era while Marciano was champ and at the height of his powers ,NOT 20 years BEFORE !!!!
2-Dempsey in 1952-5, had been held in the HIGHEST ESTEEM all the years since his retirement in 1927...
3-His greatness in his prime was written about virtually as often in the sports columns since retirement,as was when he was fighting, hence the freshness of his true abilities.
4-Camera abilities, mean squat when only a small % is shown of Dempsey
and most all of Marciano's prime fights were available.Why not show Dempsey's 25 FIRST round KOs,his demolition of Fulton, Morris, Gunboat Smith,etc ?Because they were not on film as Harry Greb's were not filmed ,but the great boxing pro writers of that time saw them BOTH with their own eyes,and were more able to evaluate them,a hell of a lot better than posters 85 years later....
5- I saw Ray Robinson at his WW best,several times...His true greatness
has been seared in my mind to THIS day,though more than 65 years have elapsed ! I don't see the Ray Robinson of Tiger Jones, Gene Fullmer,
Joey Giardello, Paul Pender days in my evaluation of Robinson. No, I see the prime Robinson at his best, and the Dempsey /Marciano fight would be Dempsey at his best,and finally Chris, those writers in 1952-5 saw BOTH Dempsey and Marciano at their zeniths and chose Dempsey almost unanimously, and I concur....Style, style. style.
P.S. and we don't need a courtroom Chris...Cheers...

 

When they compared Marciano to Dempsey, it had been a good 40 years since they saw Dempsey at his best.

See above.

Burt, I'm sure an educated man like you has seen a lot of live boxing matches. In fact, you were reminiscing them before. Then you will know that it often happens you can't see a punch because the fighter has his back to you, arms get in the way, the ref is in the way, etc. And even if you sort of see it, it's nearly impossible to remember for more than years without having video of it - close up replays. None of these were available back then.

The bolded part is exactly my point. You're judging based on a brainspawn inspired by images you saw a good 60 years ago. Since then, your brain will have kneaded, changed and shaped this into a set of thoughts that concurs with your general impression and opinion. It's nothing personal, just human psychology. Memories are unreliable after a few years, and often heavily influenced by emotion. We're not computers.

I always enjoy sharing the virtual ring with you Burt, although I will probably never agree with your views, or those of your grandpa! :bbbtta:cheers

I do think it's well worth to make the distinction between people posting at the classic section here, and the average ESPN viewer - who would better equate to the average ESB General Forum poster.

Also, I'm not sure whether those lists are fair comparisons. Certainly, the careers of Marciano/Dempsey - as well as their opponent's - are better known than the likes of Petey Salica. I do understand why you bring up the comparison, as it's directly related to IBHOF.

Still, they're all human beings, and as McGrain noted, several members here are part of IBHOF.

 

Lets see who from this forum actually is on the Nominating Committee or Committees.

I have been on both the Modern and Old-Timers Committee for several years now, so that's 1, who else has a vote or votes.

 

I know that Mendoza is. Not the best ESB representative, I know, although it does strengthen my point about such memberships. :yep

 

Lets hear from him just to make sure he is on at least 1 Committee.

Maybe we should start a New Thread, so these people will see this. I would really like to know who they are.

I also know what your talking about, because many Boxing writers have called me up, to see who I thought should go in. I wouldn't actually tell them who I thought, But I would give them stats, and comments about each fighter, so they could make up there own mind. One boxing writer, who is very well known, use to call me all the time. He even said that he really shouldn't be on the Committee, and that people like myself should.

I was asked by Herb Goldman many years ago if I would like to be on, and I told him that it would be my honor. I did some research with Herb many years ago and a lot of boxing people told him about me, so that's how I was put on.

Just this week, I was honored to announce the 1st Class of the New York State Boxing Hall of Fame at Gallagher's in New York. I am also on that Committee as well, with Steve Farhood and the President of the Boxing Writers Assiocation of America Jack Hirsch and a couple of others. When I was introduced to the people, Jack and Steve told them that I was one of the top Boxing Historians in the World. Jack told them that I have taken Hank Kaplan's place, as the go to guy when they want to know something. That really made me feel Great!

I am also a charter member of the International Boxing Research Organization, that started back in the early 1980's.

 

Were looking for voting members for the International Boxing Hall of Fame.

 

Does anyone know what the reason was given as to why unforgiven was shitcanned?

 

I, on the other hand , refuse to be a member of any organization that would have me !

 

He lived up to his nickname.

Seriously though, I have no idea. His recent posts certainly don't indicate a banning so whatever it was for must have been deleted. If he is banned.

 

So Conn is his new SN

 

Conn is not unforgiven. But I do know the man who is. he told me of this forum before but i dont post on this one, well forgot I had till today when He emailed twice this morning. Says no none of his posts was delted. banned without reason given. For ever.
I think he is prolly over it now. Lol