Revisiting Ali-Liston 1

Very well said! Ali's confidence was a double edged sword and came back to cut him in the end because he couldn't recognize that he had slipped tremendously since the glory days.

Even his actual name and date of birth is an open case. It's like the guy was a literal Boogeyman told by old coaches and fighters. No one would believe the story if there wasn't film.

 

You really didn't watch those fights, did you ?!

 

Ok, if i rewatch the fights for the 1000 time, will i see Liston winning? Did i miss something?

 

No, but the circumstances in which Ali won are important.
Liston was older than stated, barely trained, and had a shoulder injury in the first fight.
Took a dive in the second.

 

I score it 3-3 after 6 rounds.

 

Well, those fights have a lot more to them then just that, kind of surprised you didn't think of that. No offense intended.

 

That's an incredibly inaccurate statement.
Clay was missing with lots of jabs, Liston was slipping them quite a lot, up until the 6th where he stopped moving his head altogether.

 

I just rewatched the 4th, a round that could have gone either way for me before, but now I had it fairly clearly to Ali.

I'd say for sure that the only clear round for Liston was the 5th, when Ali was blinded. 1, 3 and 6 were definitely clear for Ali. Some love the 3-3 argument, but neglect to mention that Liston needed for Ali to be blind to actually clearly win a round.

I'll rewatch the second again. I've always had that as close round before.

 

I have the second for Liston. So 4-2 Ali, with one of Liston's rounds obviously coming when Ali was blinded.

 

For someone as old as you say training as little as you say, he sure did well not to have an ounce of flab on him.

If you want undedicated fighters who partied a lot, just pick a random one of Tyson's contenders in the 80's. I mean if you're keen on disqualifying results. The big difference being that they weren't that good to begin with.

 

I think Liston landed a lot more punches that people seem to suggest, and slipped far more too.
He seemed to lack snap in his left so he probably was injured.
Clay fought a great fight but he was conceding a lot to Liston every time Liston got aggressive. Clay was taking shots to the body, forced to clinch a few times, and couldn't tie Liston up, so Liston landed the body shots and even head shots in close, no great shots, but scoring shots and ones that got a reaction.
The only really one-sided round was the 6th when Clay really got the better of Liston and Liston seem to slow dramatically, just stood there and got hit in the face.
None of the other rounds were one-sided.
Clay won rounds 1, 3 and 6.
Liston won 2, 3 and 5.
The momentum went with Clay, and dramatically in the 6th round.
But the fight was no way one-sided. Clay landed the cutting punches but Liston imposed himself enough to land quite a few of his own and early on he boxed well enough to slip Clay's jabs.

Not sure what others are looking at when they say Clay couldn't miss him or that Liston could not land.

 

Fighters like Marciano and Dempsey said the KO was real, most fans think its legit. Of course many fans said he took a dive, cuz the way he fell was suspicious, but its probably because he got hit on temple by a punch he couldnt see coming.

People say Liston had good chin (which is true) and took shots from more powerful punchers than Ali, but take a look at GGG. He fought Canelo, Lemieux, Rubio, Stevens and Jacobs and we never seen him being hurt, but Derevyachenko almost made him take a knee.

 

Ok, You can read my answer to white bomber, I explained my views.

 

I personally think the knock down was legit, but that he tried to stay down just because he knew he had no chance.

 

i think 1 and 3 were fairly one-sided also. Ali staggered Liston in both. Liston was very aggressive for the last half of the third, but mostly hit air.