Revisiting the fertile ground of Filip Hrgović vs. Zhāng Zhìlěi

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, May 30, 2024.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    What data can we glean from their encounter to inform their respecitve bouts tomorrow against
    Daniel Raphael Dubois and Deontay Leshun Wilder respectively?

    I was going to check on EOTR to see what the aggregate fan scorecard consensus was, but - did that site go down? :thinking: Anyway, had a look through our Usyk vs. Joshua II RBR on here and most did in fact have it narrowly for ZZ. In later months however there appears to have been some pushback on the idea that it was a robbery. Would be curious to see a poll, and many respondents' individual round by round scorecards.

    it was a competitive affair, with good and bad takeaways for both combatants. Now, what about that day in Jeddah gives us a clearer picture of what awaits in Riyadh this weekend?

    Dubois and Zhāng are probably more similar than Wilder and Hrgović and Wilder. They're big, slow and thuddingly powerful - Zhāng probably a bit more so in all three categories (two being positives, but his extra slowness being canceled out by dint of being a southpaw and thus an inherently trickier look).

    I think DDD is as there for El Animal to smoothly outbox as he was for Usyk - but as for Usyk, there will be omnipresent danger as the Brit can dish out his dynamite to head and body and change the momentum of the contest.

    Wilder and Hrgović are within an inch of each other in height, but stylistically couldn't be more different. One is a boxer with some pop, the other a monstrous hitter whose knowledge is limited to controlling distance for spells but who gets utterly reckless when drawn into brawls. Wilder's right hand is a more devastating weapon than anything Hrgović possesses. He also can't take a shot as well. His jab is longer, Hrgović's more skillful.

    Zhāng's lack of speed and his choppy stamina late both hampered the performance against Hrgović and could prove terminal flaws against the RH equalizer of Wilder. On the other hand, there were plenty of late moments where he did show bursts of what for him qualifies as high velocity offense (check out the last 35 seconds of the 9th) and even fatigued he did stand up to some clean Hrg combos. That, and Wilder's gas tank down the stretch isn't always the most reliable.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Robotman9000

    Robotman9000 New Member Full Member

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    I think most of the people saying Hrgovic won haven't watched it and don't like Zhang, but who knows.

    I don't think Zhang and Dubois are anything alike. Zhang is an excellent boxer with great punching versatility and a great guard. Dubois is much more basic and has a more rangey 1-2 style. Should be an easy Zhang KO and an easy Hrgovic UD or maybe KO in my mind.
     
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  3. JMotrain

    JMotrain Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hrgovic showed a really good chin against Zhang, who landed some absolute bombs on him. Those same shots will send Wilder to the Shadow Realm, I'm certain of that. I think Wilder is going to get stopped early IMO. I bet Scott and his gameplan won't be to bomb Zhang out early but to try and take it to the late rounds where Zhang will tire. However, this just give Zhang time to land on Wilder's very suspect chin. Wilder SHOULD try and take him out early with a straight right hand, it's his best chance for winning IMO.

    As for DDD, he's got some pop and he is probably a little better than people give him credit for. However, beating a morbidly-obese, inactive Miller doesn't tell us he is going to do well against Hrgovic, who I think is a top-10 HW. Hrgovic is well schooled, with good power. DDD still lost to slow-ass Joyce, even forgetting about the Usyk schooling. I think Hrgovic should stop him somewhere in the middle-to-late rounds.
     
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  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Hrgović opened a -400 and has narrowed to a -230 favorite, and Dubois went from a +300 down to a +210 dog.

    Zhāng similarly has shrunk from a 4/11 (-275) to a 8/13 (-163) favorite, and Wilder tightened from a 11/5 (+220) to a 5/4 (+125) underdog.

    In spite of the late money showing a bit more confidence in the upset than bookmakers' guidance had suggested with the opening lines, I'd be very surprised if Hrgović or Zhāng loses on Saturday. Of course, they are both facing punchers - Hrgović a lesser one but with his whiskers more suspect, and Zhāng the harder one but with a correspondingly better chin. So anything could happen; it is after all heavyweight boxing.

    More likely than not, however, they see their way paved to a big payday in the second half of 2024. Why not run it back? They're both still top 15 ranked by every major org except the WBA. The winner of a rematch - coming off a victory over Dubois/Wilder before that - is pretty much a lock for next in line after the Usyk vs. Fury rematch.
     
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Also, will it change your opinion about whom you'd favor in a rematch if either/or is more dominant in beating their opponents this weekend? Like, if you currently think Zhāng would avenge - does him struggling against Wilder and/or Hrgović blowing out Dubois alter that?
     
  6. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    I don't think there's a HW on the planet who is capable of eating that many flush bombs from that big sexy Chinese man than Hrgovic did. J-Park has a very stout beard indeed and even he hit the deck twice after tasting that big sexy Chinese power. And look what Big Bang did to Big Joe Joyce.

    I actually think that fight might have taken a substantial amount out of Hrgovic because he ate a lot of very heavy shots over the course of 12 rounds from a much heavier 277lb man mountain who can punch holes in castle walls, many in quick succession, and that's not good for anyone's health. I was genuinely concerned for Hrgovic's well being after that fight.

    Big Bang can drop you like a sack of potatoes with grazing shots
     
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  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Usyk could probably stand up to Zhāng's power, at least up top. Body might be an issue.

    Hrg definitely had years shaved off his career; he was far more hurt in the ninth than he was by that early cuffing rabbit punch knockdown. I think his game plan was predicated on ZZ only being a frontrunner threat.
     
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  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Possibly but I'm not sure even he could withstand that many flush bombs from Big Bang and especially not this 37 y/o version, not that there's an alternate universe or dimension where he would ever get caught with a fraction of that many that is.

    Big Bang would have close to 60lbs on Usyk where's Hrgovic is obviously a lot heavier than Usyk too and I think sheer size and weight would come into play.

    That being said, a 220lb Usyk has a better chin than any version of Belly or AJ we've seen despite them being way bigger and heavier than him so who knows.

    Yeah, I suspect he suffered a concussion in that one. I don't care how good your chin is you can't take 12 rounds of brain abuse off of a much heavier man like Big Bang who punches as hard as he does without it taking something out of you. The weight alone behind Big Bang's blows must be immense. He's not a Valuev type giant who doesn't punch his weight. He's a giant who punches every ounce of his weight,
     
  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    What's telling is that his cuffing shot (which landed more with his inner wrist than knuckles) on the base of Hrg's skull was enough to put him down and mildly shake him up despite traveling 0.0001mph. For your power to palpably affect opponents without any fast explosiveness behind it means that a Zhāng who trained his fast-twitch muscles would be literally ripping jaws off.
     
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  10. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    I haven't rewatched but in retrospect hrgovic came on strong down the stretch and made a case to win. I think Zhang has great accuracy and hand speed but for like 5 rounds. If Wilder can find a way to get through that he can win

    I have a tough time picking but lean deontay close decision. I think hrgovic wins a rematch
     
  11. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    Respect Zhang for adopting Bloomfield nj met people that trained with him
     
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  12. MrPook

    MrPook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think Hrgovic won. Zhang had like 4 good rounds and the early knockdown but Hrgovic won more rounds and did the better boxing.

    I do think it was a close but clear win for Hrgovic.


    I think if Zhang is stationary he could eat a big bomb from Wilder. But that’s obvious and Zhang looks light and in very good shape so I think his plan is to move, and wait for the moment to land some big punches himself. I just don’t think Wilder is the same fighter anymore both mentally and physically. I don’t think Zhang has lost anything so I will go with Zhang on points with multiple knockdowns.

    Hrgovic should win his fight with Dubois. Dubois has had his moments both bad and good. But I can’t shake off the way Joyce beat him down with the jab. Hrgovic got a good jab. And a good follow up right hand. And he throws his straight punches in bunches at times as well, quite fast I got to say. I think Hrgovic breaks Dubois face and the referee or corner will stop it.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2024
  13. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    But Usyk wouldn't get hit as much as Hrgovic; he has much better defense.

    Big Bang unfortunately has poor stamina which comes from dragging 300 pounds around.
     
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  14. BlackDog

    BlackDog Active Member Full Member

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    Hrgovic was much much more agresive in Zhang fight than Wilder be.
    That's because he got different style than Wilder and because he was first other top boxer who faced Zhilei and thoose fella probably have no idea how dangerous opponent he faced that time.

    Because of agresive style Filip was open to also took many bombs.
    Wilder will be fighting more like sniper. Going back in circle and trying catch him with right hand 1-2 time in round...

    There will be not soo many occasion for BigBang. And as Parker fight show Zhilei himself is not very busy dude with working to make occasion happend. He looks better where someone go toe to toe with him. That's where his atributes show up 100%

    Wilder dont go toe to toe with Zhilei. Im sure about that. He cant forced himself to be more brave in Parker fight and You think he will go hard on puncher on his level? I doubt old version of Wilder do that and nów after lost by KO and being 38? No way.

    Dubois is nothing like Zhang. If he will took some Hrgovic shots to head what Zhang took he will be sleep 2 weeks.
    People forget that Filip is also puncher and Zhang eat there very big shots too showing like Croatian that he got tremendous chin.
    (Fun fact they forced idea of Zhang winning this fight with Filip and all replay got only Zhang shoots- but there is many, many right hand with full force Perfect shots we just cant see this in slow motion because somebody get paid to make Hrgovic looks worse here)
     
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  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Yes I know that. Obviously I know that. How could I not know it? Are you even being real with me right now, Frank? What's the matter? Cat got your tongue?