Rewatching Canelo vs Golovkin 1 rbr

According to Compubox, Canelo landed more jabs (in total) in rounds 4-6 than GGG and landed jabs at a considerably higher % in each of those rounds. So in the jab department, at least according to Compubox, Canelo won the jab battle in those rounds. In round 6, for example, you said GGG was driving Canelo back with the jab but it was Canelo who out jabbed him that round.

GGG did start to open up a bit and land some good combos in rounds 4-6 which is why he won those rounds according to the judges, but that was the first time he really started to open up. In round 4, you noted that GGG was "matching" the combos of Canelo. Anotherwords, he wasn't out comboing Canelo, he was just matching him in that department. With an even # of jabs that round, and an even # of combos that round, there's not much in that round to separate the two, and it's my view GGG was given that round because he finally got in some offense, as opposed to rounds 1-3. With an even # of jabs landed and an even # of combos in round 4, it's splitting hairs to decide a winner, and it's easy to score it to GGG because he threw more punches or landed a few more glancing shots, but in reality, Canelo did better in the defense and ring generalship department, with GGG doing better in the effective aggression department. That's 2 scoring criteria categories won by Canelo to 1 for GGG, with GGG landing a few more non-jabs but Canelo landing better shots and landing at a much higher %, so better efficiency. Being more efficient is a good reason to score a round like that to Canelo, with other aspects even or too close to call. I did see you noted that Canelo landed some good counters in round 6, but according to you not enough to swing the round. It was a hard round to score, but with a higher efficiency, and more jabs landed by Canelo, there are plenty of reasons to give that round to Canelo.

Canelo being forced to the ropes is a myth. He clearly went there voluntarily in rounds 4 and 5, and stayed on the ropes for prolonged periods in those rounds to show that he could fight there effectively without getting hit with anything significant. He fought off the ropes successfully in round 4, but not quite in round 5, as GGG landed that shot to the side of his head which shifted momentum. That sequence in round 5 is a good a reason as any to give GGG round 5 and Canelo round 4 in rounds that were that close.

Good, he sure did change his strategy. After the first match, GGG and the fans challenged Canelo to show how he could walk GGG down and beat him coming forward, which is exactly what he did.

 

Hahaha.

 

I don't use it for scoring either, but just pointing out that Canelo landed more jabs in rounds 4-6 and did well in that department in those rounds, something that GGG is often applauded for.

But what happened in round 4 when Canelo went back to the ropes? Did GGG score while Canelo was on the ropes? No, this was a turning point in the round, because the round was pretty even going into the ropes sequence. Going into the match a big talking point was what would happen if Canelo got caught on the ropes. GGG fans said that Canelo wouldn't be able to fight off the ropes against GGG and he disproved that in round 4 when he went back to the ropes and stayed there for a good amount of time. This was a pivotal moment, GGG fans always bring up that Canelo was backed up to the ropes, but always fail to mention what happened once he got there. Canelo showed how well he could fight off the ropes in round 4 which was a showcase of ring generalship. So much so that he became overconfident and went back to the ropes again in round 5, and this time he was caught with that one shot to the side of the head. But in round 4, he did it without getting hit like that, so that was why he won ring generalship in round 4. You could say it's ring generalship that GGG forced him back to the ropes in round 4, but when Canelo stayed there and fought there for as long as he did, without being hit by GGG and landing some shots on GGG, that flipped the ring generalship in his favor.

 

I only care what happened in the fight also, you have ignored what happened when Canelo went back to the ropes in round 4. Regardless of the narrative going in about what GGG fans said would happen to Canelo if he went back to the ropes against GGG, it was still a pivotal moment of the round when it happened. Because outside of that sequence, as you've alluded to, was very even in terms of punches landed and combos, and you concluded that GGG won ring generalship that round because he backed Canelo to the ropes, without getting into what happened when he stayed on the ropes. That was a big part of what happened in that round, regardless of the talking points. If you refuse to address the ropes sequence in round 4 by labeling it "fanboy debates", that's you ignoring the sequence itself. The fact that what GGG fans said going in would happen if Canelo got stuck on the ropes didn't happen is significant, not just because it was a talking point, but because it was such an impressive eye catching sequence that mattered, but it often ignored by those who score that round for GGG, a sequence that directly speaks to ring generalship which you appear to have totally ignored.

I brought up the fan talking points about what would happen if Canelo went to the ropes because they are relevant to our interpretation of what happened, and how significant that sequence should be treated. But I understand you not wanting to talk about fan talking points, instead what actually happened. So lets talk about what happened when Canelo was on the ropes in round 4. Otherwise, you're ignoring a crucial and pivotal moment in that round, in a round that was otherwise very even.

 

OK lets forget about the fan narratives. Just focus on what happened when Canelo went back to the ropes in round 4. What happened along the ropes?

 

GGG jabbed, more like pawed at Canelo, Canelo blocked and slipped them, stayed there without any problems. GGG stayed at mid range because of how slippery Canelo was on the ropes, how worried about being countered GGG was. It was a great sequence by Canelo, a showcase of how to fight off the ropes without getting hit. GGG did not take advantage of Canelo being on the ropes. Canelo showed he can go to the ropes, stay there, fight off the ropes, land some shots while there, avoid getting hit with anything significant. That was a big moment for ring generalship for Canelo.

 

In your earlier post, you correctly identified the scoring criteria. This tells me that you know how to score a fight.

So, given the conclusions you reached, I must conclude that your problem is not that you don't understand scoring, but rather, one of eyesight.

It's as if you told me that you knew the salient characteristics of an elephant and listed them for me...four legs, a trunk, big floppy ears, etc...and then misidentified an ostrich as being an elephant.

I would conclude that you knew what an elephant was supposed to look like, but had a serious seeing problem.

So it is with GGG-Canelo (1).

You have correctly identified the important factors in the scoring of the fight, but what you saw (or thought you saw) that evening was significantly different from what the great majority of boxing observers saw.

BTW, I was a fan of Canelo long before GGG was on my radar, and I recall making similar arguments to what you are putting forth when I was explaining to Canelo-haters that Canelo actually beat both Lara and Trout. He landed better punches that had more impact.

However, in the fight currently under discussion, GGG landed the more significant shots, did more damage and suffered less damage throughout most of the fight. That was obvious to most.

As to the reasons you failed to 'see' that, I am unsure.

It could have been a preconception of how things were going to unfold....fan-boyism...a disdain for GGG....any number of psychological factors that could have affected your 'vision' that night.

Or it might have been an organic physiological issue with the eyes.

At any rate, suffice to say that you 'saw' a very different fight from most.

In the big scheme of things, it matters little.

There is the official result, a Draw.

And there is the actual fight, forever documented in full colour, for all to see and judge.

 

Exactly this. @lufcrazy I've debated shadow fully at length on several occasions and he undermines anything Golovkin throws and deems probing punches, taps, and inside glove slaps from Canelo as clean. He exaggerates everything Canelo does. Shadow knows what he is doing here. When you call him out on something (ie a probing tap Canelo throws) he says "I don't know what youre seeing here" or "how are you not seeing this?" even though what's on display is clear to see. No point debating anything with Shadow regarding Canelo

 

and you had Murata up against GGG

Imagine how much you'd enjoy GGG if he wasn't from Eastern Europe

 

He does appear to have a distorted view of things.

And the remedy might well be something simple...maybe just a an updated prescription and a new pair of glasses.



Then again, it might be a bit more complicated...and maybe require a few sessions on the couch of a competent shrink.