Rewatching Canelo vs Golovkin 1 rbr

Great avatar. Much props sent your way.

 

Rematch was worth a re score. On first viewing I thought Canelo was up 6 nothing after six. Second viewing golovkin landed a lot of punches that went unnoticed for me. I never understood why people thought G won the second fight until watching it again. I’m still ok with the Canelo win, just saying.

 

To be honest… I don’t think anyone knows how to score a fight. Even the official judges. It’s one of those mythical things in life lmao.

 

Didnt read!

 

When a fighter, particularly a heavy handed aggressor like GGG, backs his man up to the ropes, there's an expectation that it's advantageous for the aggressor to have his opponent there, that him being there is going to result in damage being inflicted.

That didn't happen when Canelo went back to the ropes mid way through the 4th round. Granted Canelo didn't counter off the ropes like he could against Beefy, very true, but he did show high level maneuverability and defensive prowess in how he navigated the ropes, picked off shots, gave GGG angles, made GGG miss, etc. GGG didn't step in and load up on Canelo while he was there. Staying on the ropes like that, making your opponent miss, showing a comfort along the ropes is a measure of ring generalship and defensive mastery. The crowd came alive during that sequence as they were impressed that Canelo was able to stay there and get away with that.

Ring generalship is open to interpretation, but it was very apparent that Canelo was the one making GGG come to him, by using footwork, changing direction, setting traps, throwing punches when GGG least expected it, etc. That really is textbook ring generalship. It's more than just what direction a fighter is moving in. I mean, take Chavez vs Sweet Pea for example. Who was the ring general there? Chavez? Because he was moving forward? Sweet Pea was making Chavez come to him, by using footwork, setting traps, and tagging him when he got into range, then getting out before Chavez could fire back, much like Canelo did to GGG in that first fight. Not to the extent Sweet Pea did against Chavez, but the same kind of strategy was employed. Be the matador against the bull, open up space with footwork, control distance, wait until your man gets within range, then load up and time him and try to do so without getting hit. It's not ring generalship for the bull to merely follow the matador's lead, it's only ring generalship for the aggressor if he's the creating the movement from his opponent and actually trapping him. Canelo was creating the space himself, and was heavy handed enough to time GGG every time he got close which result in a lot of favorable or even exchanges.

From the opening bell, Canelo established himself as the ring general in that he was dictating the pace of the fight, he was using the ring to his advantage. You can certainly make the counter argument that GGG was the ring general as the bull who forced Canelo to backpedal, but I think there's a difference when a fighter comes out fighting like that voluntarily as a strategy, vs when a fighter tries to engage early on, only to get hurt, then realize he has to go into retreat mode. That's not what happened in Canelo GGG 1. Canelo clearly came out and employed a strategy of movement, creating space, and then trading when necessarily and getting the better of GGG in many of those exchanges, because GGG was reaching trying to chase Canelo, not dissimilar to how Sweet Pea handled Chavez.

 

GGG got hosed.. That’s why I don’t bang the “Who has he beaten” drum anymore. If we’re being fair he should have at least 1 win over ATG Canelo.. I can see how the judges gave Canelo the victory in the 2nd fight as GGG fought very passive..

 

Elephants and ostriches are easy to tell apart. It's much harder to determine who wins close rounds in a boxing match this close and competitive and to support your argument.

There are plenty of posters on here who would agree with you about who won GGG Canelo 1 but would disagree with you on who won Canelo Lara or Trout. So right there you know that views of these matches vary between fans, even amongst "like-minded" fans.

It's very apparent that GGG was rocked several times throughout the match, take the big single shots in rounds 7, 8 and 9 as an example. Canelo was never rocked like that, Canelo was never "stopped in his tracks" like GGG was, as Jim Lampley alluded to. This was because Canelo was not walking into shots like GGG was. Canelo maintained range, stayed out of harms way, and made it very diffcult for GGG.

There's no basis for your claim that GGG inflicted more damage or landed more significant shots. The only round where GGG really tagged Canelo with hard stiff jabs was Round 7. Aside from that round, it was Canelo who landed the bigger more impactful shots, and it wasn't in a rock em sock em robot sense, it was because of how he set traps for GGG and was able to load up and time GGG coming in.

GGG wasn't able to time Canelo like that because he was constantly chasing and reaching as Canelo was more elusive, giving him upper body movement, keeping a tight guard more often since he wasn't punching as much, etc. GGG showed good elbow placement in his blocking, but since was more active in throwing punches, there were more opportunities for Canelo to land hard head shots. Unlike Canelo, GGG isn't as well versed in slipping shots which resulted in getting tagged with hard shots more. It was a definite learning experience for GGG, but the arguments you're making don't really stand up. Canelo did more of the clean work, landed the harder single shots, rocked GGG several times with hard head shots, landed far more body shots, showed more counter punching skill.

GGG did land his share of pressure punches, but they did not have the kind of impact that Canelo's best shots had on GGG, which caused sweat to fly and caused GGG to stop in his tracks. I've actually challenged GGG fans to show me some examples of GGG landing big sweat flying shots on Canelo in the first match, and I never heard back from them. In the rematch, GGG landed some sweat flying shots on Canelo due to the come forward approach, but not in the first match because of how cautious Canelo fought. You could argue that GGG inflicted more damage due to accumulation of punches, but there's no indication he caused any real damage. GGG was more marked up, clearly was stunned several times whereas Canelo wasn't. This is fairly obvious, and makes logical sense considering the approach and skill set of each fighter, as Canelo is far more slippery than GGG, using far more head and upper body movement to roll with punches. GGG on the other hand when receiving offense, would merely stop moving forward, tuck those elbows in, and get into blocking stance, then move forward again.

So you need to explain how a guy with a fundamentally sound, but very basic defense as GGG would take less damage than a guy with a more multifaceted defense as Canelo who is using footwork, more angles, upper body movement, etc. Also GGG with a less dynamic repertoire of punches than Canelo had. GGG mostly relied on jabs and straights, while Canelo is more capable of throwing a wider variety of punches many at odd angles, including more looping shots. And this coming from a fighter on the move, who is able to time his man coming in, it's no wonder Canelo inflicted more damage based on the approach. And also Canelo's most impressive shots happened to come in some of GGG's best rounds (7-9) where GGG appeared to be having his way with Canelo, and thus was lulled into a false sense of security than wham bam thank you ma'am GGG got lit up with those big right hands. That was no coincidence. GGG got lit up precisely due to the success he was having thinking he was finally starting to have his way with Canelo before walking into those bombs and being brought back down to earth.

This topic is about a fan finally coming to the realization after 5 years that a draw is a reasonable result after years of not seeing that as a reasonable result, yet to you I'm the one with preconceptions or psychological factors that affected my view?

Guess who all that time saw a draw as a reasonable result? Me.

Guess who all that time understood and respect those who saw the match in favor of GGG? Me.

Guess who from the beginning recognized how close and difficult to score the match was? Me.

So you're criticizing someone who has an outlook on this match that recognizes how open to interpretation it was with many hard to score rounds which only now are some like the OP finally coming to this realization.

You wanna talk about fanboy-ism, what's more fanboy-ish than to refuse to see a close debatable match like this as the close debatable match it was? What's more fanboy-ish than to not respect the judges who saw it close, to not recognize how close and debatable rounds were, to not respect others like me who saw it differently while recogizing how close it was, but to only see it one way, as an "obvious" GGG win. When you have a match fought at such a high level, that was obviously close and difficult to score, the fanboys are the ones who take a side like GGG fans have done with a hard-line "my way or the highway" stance and are closed-minded to any view of the match that doesn't involve GGG winning. To pretend like this match wasn't close or hard to score is utterly mad. And especially after the OP coming to the realization that there are 6 rounds that he admits could have been given to Canelo, and how he now realizes that a draw is reasonable, that cements just how close and difficult to score it was. So your "it was so obvious that GGG won" argument is in direct contrast to the epiphany that the OP has come to in here and the "obvious" amount of close and hard to score rounds that destroys the popularized view around here that this was some kind of a robbery because GGG won so clearly.

 

The first match was a very even, back and forth classic, with an entertaining clash of styles that meshed well. The rematch on the other hand was more of a slugfest fought with more brute force. In the rematch Canelo was pretty much having his way with GGG, aside from rounds 1 and 4 which were good GGG rounds, until a valiant comeback by GGG in the last 3-4 rounds made it a very close decision. Both matches were true classics in their own way and I don't see how anyone could deny how close and dramatic each match was. Both fights truly lived up to the hype and regardless of who people thought deserved to win either match, both matches were fought at such a high level and a grueling pace, those kinds of performances from Canelo and GGG only serve to enhance each fighter's legacy.

 

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Here you are :

http://cdn2.vectorstock.com/i/1000x1000/86/76/baby-milk-bottle-vector-3158676.jpg

Better now?

 

A key thing to take away from this fight is that Canelo cleared ducked Golovkin afterwards (again).
Even if you believe Canelo won, it was not any kind of decisive victory, at best a debatable points win, which after the first robbery draw should have made a third fight essential.

No honourable fighter would get a gift draw, then a slim points win, then act like they had proved their supremacy over a rival. It's plainly absurd. They would actually want to try to clearly settle the rivalry in another fight, leaving no doubt, particularly when this fight is basically the biggest fight in boxing at the time, with a jackpot on the table.

This is why people detest Canelo fans so much. If they were honest, they'd admit their fighter lost the first, and even if they scored the second for him, they would admit a third was necessary. Instead they pretend Canelo proved he was on a different level and didn't just take his ball and go home after officially nicking a decision in the second fight. If Golovkin had done what Canelo did, he'd be branded the biggest coward in boxing.

 

Well I can't speak for any other Canelo fans, but I always thought there was a need for a 3rd fight and I always wanted to see it. We need to keep in mind that there were some factors that prevented a 3rd fight from happening. First, HBO announcing that it would be closing its doors to boxing immediately following the rematch. Had HBO not made that decision, a 3rd fight likely would have been pushed by HBO to happen as soon as possible, like in May 2019.

Both Canelo and GGG moved to DAZN, a completely new and a non-PPV platform made it difficult to make the 3rd GGG fight happen right away. Canelo and GGG both were used to fighting on PPV, to reduce the 3rd fight to a streaming app that most people didn't have right away didn't make business sense. Another problem that made a 3rd fight less likely was that GGG refused to give an interview in the ring after losing the rematch. Had GGG stayed in the ring, demanded a 3rd fight, it would have sent a signal that he really wanted a 3rd fight. Since GGG left the ring with his tail between his legs, without giving an interview, that made a 3rd fight less likely to happen since the signal that sent to the world (whether true or not) was that GGG had accepted defeat and was not interested in a 3rd fight. Now I don't believe for a second that GGG thought he lost, but GGG should have given an interview in the ring and demanded a 3rd fight if he really wanted it. He didn't do that, so he has no one but himself to blame for not taking a stand there and demanding a 3rd fight.

So you have to consider the HBO problem and GGG's own actions post fight as reasons why the 3rd fight wasn't made immediately. There was also the sense that GGG was aging and if he took a 3rd fight right away could send him into retirement. Instead GGG was able to continue his career against lesser opposition and build towards a 3rd fight. Another problem that put the 3rd fight on hold was Covid. If you remember, before Covid hit, there was talk of a 3rd fight happening in 2020, but then with no fans that couldn't happen. I just think there's a tendency to blame Canelo for the 3rd fight not happening, when there were several factors outside of his control which made that impossible, namely HBO closing its doors and the DAZN non-PPV business model taking shape.

Also as a comparison to another rivalry in which there was a so-called gift draw then a slim points win, lets look at Pacquiao Marquez 1 and 2. It took 4 years for the rematch to occur after their first draw, then after the rematch, a slim points win for Pacquiao, it took another 3 ½ years before a 3rd fight happened. Pac was 32 years old and Marquez was 38 years old when their 3rd match finally happened, which was 7 ½ years after their first fight, far longer than Canelo GGG 1 and Canelo GGG 3 if it happens later this year with a similar age difference between the two fighters.

So when you say "No honourable fighter would get a gift draw, then a slim points win, then act like they had proved their supremacy over a rival." you can look at Pac Marquez as an example of a fighter getting a controversial draw then a slim points victory then each fighter going their separate ways for many years before agreeing to fight for a 3rd time. I think it's normal for both fighters to feel that they proved their supremacy. GGG made it very clear that he felt that he won both fights, even recently went as far as to say that fans who think Canelo won are "delusional". So GGG in just as guilty of acting like he had proved his supremacy over Canelo, at least as much if not more than Canelo has.

 

Didn't read.

 

Good shot ol chap!

 

Darn it!! I was hoping to hear what you thought of all that.