Reworking a Career: Roy Jones Jr

Great talent but you’ve also got to factor in his prime was most likely assisted by PED’s. If a guy gets caught in his prime (the way he did) there’s a good reason to look at a lot him with suspicion.

I feel with what he had he should have gone gone as a top 20-30 lock but I don’t think he has a case to even be in there. Part of this was his overly selective matchmaking. I hold it as a * that the alphabet boys systematically worked with Jones to take all of Michelsewski’s belts away because Jones did not want to fight him. In another era if you wanted to be the champ sometimes you had to give concessions or agree to fight him where he wanted. Jones never wanted to go there with Michelsweski. I know a lot of Jones fanboys used to say “Well Roy would play with him so it’s as good as a win”. No. You gotta fight the fights. His dominance against quality like Toney, Johnson, Hill, Hopkins (pre prime but still that grew) was impressive and I have him credit for that. The cherry pick at heavyweight not so much. Lewis was the champ. That win was not historical IMO.

The way Jones’s career ended was bad but that’s common with a lot of greats but the steep decline was alarming and damaging IMO. Especially after it all seemed to come apart not too long after he was busted with PEDs.

I have Jones somewhere between 40-50 all-time.

 

I consider the GOAT head to head anyway but.....

Nunn moved to SMW after the Toney loss so you'd need the fight there. Building the ideal career you'd have him face Eubanks, Rochiagiani and Collins too. A Hopkins rematch also helps. You'd also want him to retire after the first Tarver bout. Maybe an extended career at HW, scalping the likes of Holyfield, Tyson, Byrd and Toney would be an impressive resume.

Also remember Liles, Benn, Dariusz were all offered career high money by HBO but they all turned the fight down or their manager did at least. Holyfield turned down $25m after Jones beat Ruiz because he didn't want to look silly - his words.

The problem was allot of these fighters were tied down by Don King and King wanted Jones only on a multi fight deal. Something Jones wouldn't agree to. The likes of Benn/Dariusz/Eubanks had big followings in their own countries where they could get huge crowds but they got paid lesser TV fees. This was before PPV really caught on and Jones only went PPV in the Ruiz bout IIRC

Eubanks is on record as saying 'I would only face Jones Jr if he was my mandatory and he can't be my mandatory because he's a world champion'. He also talked about in the sense it would be a fight that reduce his life expectancy

 

Dariusz turned down career high money from HBO. Jones wasn't willing to go to Germany after the Olympic robbery and Darius was more than happy riding the WBO gravy train in Germany rather than upset the apple cart by facing Jones.

 

He had the other belts, the alphabet boys stripped him systematically to give them to Jones. He was the champion. It was his right to fight at home. Countless foreign fighters get robbed in America. It’s not only a robbery when an American is on the wrong end and it’s not only foreign fighters that must travel. The Olympics had nothing to do with Michelswki.

 

If he did all that he’d perhaps be top 30 yeah with the Tarver trilogy and Johnson loss being what brings him down. The PED is still an issue.

 

I would say Top 10. His ability head to head has never been in doubt. It was always the perceived cherry-picking that hurt his standing. Because his reputation was built on a glistening record and awesome highlights, once he got scorched by Tarver and Johnson things really burned to the ground reputation wise.

There is a lot to digest in the opening post, but I think people are not really taking into account how big some of those changes would be. Jirov was roughly top 10/12 pound for pound at that time, so Jones toppling him would have been huge on his march to heavyweight. And Juan Carlos Gomez was at the peak of his career, he'd just broken a compubox record in his last fight, so if RJJ beat him handily too, it really would have validated his status at heavyweight after beating Ruiz.

 

I think if he'd have done all that it would be a joke to have him outside a top ten.

 

All of Dariusz' title fights in Germany had international judges and referees (ie Joe Cortez, Eddie Cotton). If the Germans were really as bad as Jones claimed, then Gonzalez would never have got an SD against Dariusz when he had the chance to tie Marciano's 49-0 (also worth bearing in mind that Dariusz is not even German, but Polish).

 

He’d have to be top 15 if he’d done that.

 

There was no overly selective matchmaking.

The org’s didn’t conspire to give Roy the titles.

The WBO wasn’t recognised or respected back then, and other fighters were stripped of their titles for trying to hold the WBO belt alongside of them.

The WBO were formed from disgruntled ex-members of the WBA.

Dariusz had to have known that he couldn’t have held his WBO belt alongside the WBA and IBF titles.

He could have relinquished his WBO belt immediately after beating Virgil Hill, but he didn’t.

Roy had only just entered the division when it happened.

 

The belts weren’t given to Roy.

He had to beat Del Valle and Reggie Johnson.

The robbery in the Olympics was huge for Roy.

He doesn’t deserve criticism for not going to Germany with all three of the main belts.

Dariusz also feigned injury in order to get Roch disqualified in their first fight.

 

What about the first Roch fight?

What about Robin Reid being tag teamed against Sven Ottke?

Would you have taken all 3 of the main belts to Germany, if you’d been robbed before?