I think all the gracies are overrated. What has any gracie done in mma in the past 5 or 6 years? Of course they where good when it was one style verse another, but when people started learning and mixing styles these egomaniacs haven't done **** in the grand scheme of things.
How old are they now? In the grand scheme of things they haven't done ****? Almost everyone that participates in MMA studies BJJ in one way or another. Everybody. Even the one's that claim not to, like Ken Shamrock, study the techniques. Ken Shamrock began studying immediately after losing to Royce in UFC I. Another thing; the sport has modified in a way that makes a BJJ practitioner less effective. Stand-ups, time limits, the incorporation of rounds; all take away from a submission specialist. I know it was done for the sake of entertainment, and you have to have time limits to preserve TV time. Still, none of these things happen in a real fight, and that is why mma was created. MMA was born out of a competition that simulated real fighting. So if you want to say that the rule protected fighters of today could defeat the Gracies in that environment, fine. These fighters haven't proven they could do anything when the sport's only rules were no biting, and no eye gouging; and it actually simulated a real fight. Actually, he stopped fighting when he was around 40 and the talent became protected by numerous rules.
Simply put - Rickson Gracie is the single greatest proponent of Brazilian Jiujitsu to come out of Brazil over the past twenty years. He was already forty by the time he fought at Pride 4 and his best days were long behind him. I was always saddened that he was unable to continue his career longer than he did - but the loss of his son's life no doubt sapped the last of his fighting spirit. How do I think Rickson would perform against today's crop of fighters? I think he would choke out everyone 205 and under. Period. End of sentence. Rickson's takedowns were atrocious. His standup skills are very basic - but not unfocused or wild - however his submissions game on the ground is unparalleled. I'll let the man speak for himself. Those who know jiujitsu know class when they see it. http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68604 http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2149293#post2149293
You're crazy if you think Royce & Rickson would beat modern fighters with no rules. They were great in no rules fights against guys who had never heard of an armbar - if you want to see how theyde do against good fighters in those rules, watch Mark Kerr takedown Fabio Gurgel and headbutt him in the face a 100 times - it isnt pretty.
So you're telling me that everyone Rickson fought in Brazil never heard of an armbar? Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't say anything about Royce. Rickson is an entirely different animal. And I have seen Mark Kerr fight Fabio Gurgel. That is Fabio Gurgel - not Rickson. Beyond that - I said Rickson would beat anyone 205 and below. When was Mark Kerr last below 206? Did you even read anything I wrote? If you guys want to argue - at least have a point. Next. I didn't start this ****ing thread but I'm not going to sit around and watch a bunch of nonsense bandied about because you guys don't seem to want to respect the MMA pioneers that set the table for the fighters today.
I don't think it is too ridiculous to have, say, a Chuck Lidell beating Rickson, or anyone with great striking and really really good takedown defense. Not that Rickson isn't great or anything, but he did fight in a different era which does make some difference.
It wouldn't even need that - since when was Rickson (or any one-dimensional BJJ guy) good at takedowns? He couldnt take any good modern 205lber down and he certainly couldn't strike with them; what his gameplan supposed to be, hope they slip over? :huh
Almost all fights go to the ground eventually. Rickson is a natural fighter like BJ Penn. His strikes set up his takedowns. His striking defense sets up takedowns. What percentage of MMA fights never go to the ground? I don't know the math - but I do know that on the ground Rickson was the best.
They don't if one guy wants to stand up and other guy cant take him down. CHuck Liddell kept two entire fights standing with Randy Couture, who is a million times better takedowns than any BJJ guy, is 220lbs and is a world class wrestler. Rickson is like BJ Penn? Come on man be serious for a minute, a guy with no striking ability or experience or training at all, who cant wrestle or take anyone down is like BJ Penn? lol If you think think a little BJJ guy like Rickson could take down Lidddell or RAmpage or Dan Henderson, youre crazy, its just impossible.
I take it you were addressing me. Well, I don't think Royce could do any such thing. He is, by his own admission, no where near Rickson's level. In fact, Royce in a way makes Rickson seem more incredible. Almost everyone will at least agree that Rickson is way better than Royce. Royce does have wins over Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, and Kazushi Sakuraba. If Royce can fight on a high enough level to compete with those guys, it is hard for me to think that Rickson would not have been at a higher class than that.
Look at a pretty one-dimensional BJJ guy like Ricardo Almeida recently, was rendered completely useless by someone like Patrick Cote who is a 'B' level fighter who doesn't even have good takedown defense himself, and no wrestling background at all. These BJJ guys have to be excellent strikers if they dont have the explosiveness or size to score a takedown. Hoping that you someone end up in a favorable position on the ground on the basis that a lot of MMA fights end up there is, uhm, a bit optimistic, to put it mildly.
