Ricky Hatton: Is he an all time great Jnr WW? If so where does he rank?

Discussion in 'British Boxing Forum' started by Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008.


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  1. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Genuine question here.

    The Junior Welterweight (or Super Lightweight or Light Welterweight) divison is one that while existing since the early part of last century, was often shunned by many great fighters in favour of the more prestigious WW division.

    Certain great fighters haven't bothered with the division altogether. For instance Roberto Duran quite logically went straight past it looking to fight Sugar Ray Leonard.

    Others have used the division as a quick stop such as Floyd Mayweather, Pernell Whittaker, Oscar De La Hoya, Miguel Cotto and even Wilfred Benitez: all very good, some even great fighters but guys that haven't really taken time to establish a firm legacy in the division.

    That is not to say that others have not, especially in more recent years. The likes of Aaron Pryor, Kostya Tsyzu and now Ricky Hatton have favoured the division and have sought to establish a legacy within it.

    My question is, where does Ricky Hatton rank in this odd division in regards to the all time rankings?

    I usually rank fighters based on two things: their resume and also how I think they would do head to head against other great fighters from that division.

    Now head to head, I think there are plenty of people that could beat Hatton. Pryor, Meldrick Taylor, Oscar De La Hoya, Pernell Whittaker....to name but a few. That is not to say that Hatton is a slouch in this manner either though as I would favour him over a prime Kostya Tsyzu whom many consder to be the best Jnr WW ever for example.

    Resume wise, for all the criticisms, I don't see too many as being far above him.

    Nonetheless, I won't pretend to be an expert here. I'm not overly knowledgable about the division and would simply like to know where you guys feel Hatton ranks among the divisions best.

    Your thoughts would be appreciated.
     
    Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008
    Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008
    #1
  2. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    If you are ranking him in terms of the way Boxrec ranks fighters (i.e. when looking at AT ratings they go in the division in which they fought most often - generally) then I don't suppose there would be that many ahead of him.

    When they used to rank current fighters within the all time rankings I believe he was in the top 10 - which is about fair.
     
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    #2
  3. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    As you have said Hattons ranking depends almost entirely on how much weight you give to H2H match ups against great fighters like Ross, Ortiz, Mayweather, Benitiez etc who fought at weight but didn't build up much of a resume there.

    If you favour H2H against any fighter who won a belt at 140 then you could have Hatton lower than 25 but if you go on resume at 140 then I think top 10 could be easily argued for.
     
    GazOC, Jul 15, 2008
    GazOC, Jul 15, 2008
    #3
  4. ThePlugInBabies

    ThePlugInBabies ♪ ♫ Full Member

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    on an achievement basis, probably top ten. he's up against the likes of aaron pryor, kostya, duillo loi, nicolino locche, barney ross, antonio cervantes, JCC, jack kid berg etc. but he most likely just sneaks in.

    on H2H basis, considering some of the talent that has stopped over at 140, he doesn't make a top 20.
     
    ThePlugInBabies, Jul 15, 2008
    ThePlugInBabies, Jul 15, 2008
    #4
  5. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    If you rank guys in the division in which they spent the majority of their careers, you would put him top 10.

    Using the other method it would be impossible to rank anyone, anywhere.
     
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    #5
  6. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    I fully agree with your assesment...I didn't want to list too many guys that I believe would beat him for fear of being labelled a hater...

    I think it's interesting that many of us, myself included, are very critical of his resume when really, it appears as though he has one of the better ones all things considered in Light Welterweight history.

    Some might counter and say this is because it's somewhat of a ******* division that no one has ever really wanted to claim....

    But I think Hatton actually deserves some credit here. In terms of who he has actually beaten, he has a fine resume in comparison to others.
     
    Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008
    Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008
    #6
  7. Eubank

    Eubank Active Member Full Member

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    He is one of the best but historicaly the division sucks.
     
    Eubank, Jul 15, 2008
    Eubank, Jul 15, 2008
    #7
  8. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    To be fair, all the 'light', 'super' and what not divisions suck historically (175 excepted obviously)
     
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    #8
  9. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A few notable JWW names who had a lengthy stay in the division...

    Aaron Pryor, 39-1, 35 KO's

    Barney Ross, 72-4-3, 22 KO's

    Tony Canzoneri, 137-24-10, 44 KO's

    Wilfred Benitez, 53-8-1, 31 KO's. .

    Antonio Cervantes, 66-12-1, 36 KO's.

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    *These records also include the fighters records at other weights too*

    I say, he probably sneaks top ten, being kind.
     
    JonOli, Jul 15, 2008
    JonOli, Jul 15, 2008
    #9
  10. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Most of those fighters (esp. Ross, Canzoneri, Benitiez) wern't active for anywhere near that long or built up those records at 140, those figures are for the total span of their careers and Pryors only loss came a 147.
     
    GazOC, Jul 15, 2008
    GazOC, Jul 15, 2008
    #10
  11. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    Ditto Hatton :ko
     
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    #11
  12. JonOli

    JonOli Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Were they not, I copied the first five from a junior Welter poll and followed the date, record format. I'll go, check, and edit.

    I was aware Ross had a lot of fights at welter. He had a fair stay at JWW though. All those names I've listed had very lengthy stays at Junior Welter.



    Yea, I too was going to mention that Hatton is still undefeated at 140.
     
    JonOli, Jul 15, 2008
    JonOli, Jul 15, 2008
    #12
  13. Beeston Brawler

    Beeston Brawler Comical Ali-egedly Full Member

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    I would certainly back Hatton against Roger Mayweather, Hector Camacho and Kostya Tszyu.

    I remember a thread where someoene said that he would have a stylistic advantage over Locche as well.
     
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    Beeston Brawler, Jul 15, 2008
    #13
  14. GazOC

    GazOC Guest Star for Team Taff Full Member

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    Chavez had a pretty good run of fights at 140.
     
    GazOC, Jul 15, 2008
    GazOC, Jul 15, 2008
    #14
  15. Beatboxer

    Beatboxer Well-Known Member Full Member

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    True. Out of curiousity whats your stance on the Taylor fight? Harsh or wholly legit stoppage?
     
    Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008
    Beatboxer, Jul 15, 2008
    #15
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