Rid**** Bowe vs Sonny Liston

Even a worse match for liston than the 1991 Holyfield would be...now instead of a 205 pounder he has a 230/240 pounder that stands 6'5 that doesn't have a power jab but has a longer range jab due to height combined arm length that is more deverse in setting other punches up...inside/outside fighter Bowe takes this by a landslide. The big Bear would be the cub in this one. this either ends in stoppage or decision for Bowe ,depends which Bowe shows up.

 

I would favor Bowe, but lets not pretend this wouldnt be competitive. Sonny twice stopped Cleveland Williams who really wasnt much smaller than Bowe and could bang. Sonny loses a decision but would have his miments against Bowe who was all to willing to mix it up.

 

I agree with this breakdown. I think that Bowe would eat his share of jabs though and that prime Liston is probably tough enough to last the distance. I don't think that any of the large fighters Liston beat were remotely as talented as Bowe.

 

Well that one makes sense! just so were clear here though Williams was 210 in the Liston fight...bowe was over 230 in some and had a 2 inch height advantage too. Yes that is size and this adds up in a jabbing contest of ones who relied on it.

 

One thing Liston certainly had in common with foreman was imposing his size,and he had guys as little as 5'7 to do it on...This all changes with 6'5 Bowe...We don't really know how Liston would fight an elite bigger guy b/c he never did. Bowe lost to golota because he was out bullied not because he was the lesser fighter....However Golota some forget was 6'4 240 and had a 84 inch reach or so....he outweighed Bowe and pushed him around as the fight progressed in both fights...liston is not that guy.

 

If Bowe was in the physical shape Williams was in he'd be around the same weight. As far as the height, Sonny negates it with his reach advantage. I like Bowe, but hes not matching up with Liston in a jabbing contest and would match up well with any fighter willing to brawl with him.

 

Height is reach as is leg lenth and how you use it...these are factors that aren't measured..bowe at 6'5 230 plus is not out of shape at that weight that's where he is proportianatly...at 210 he would look like the walking dead ,like a Terrell type .. Bowes jab was more for stting up other punches,as stated Liston has nmore of a rocket jab,Bowes was used to set the othe shots up. My two jab lists didn't have either on them for other reasons,both are about equal in different ways but bowe was more craftier,liston more walk forward jabber that Bowe would figure out and quick.

 

All due respect to Sonny, but Bowe's physical advantages combined with talent, and I'd have to bet on Rid****.

 

You could have said all the same things about the Mercer-Lewis fight and look what happened there. Difference is Liston was a better fighter than Mercer. Seems you want to argue every angle to convince others your opinion is the only right opinion. Unfortunately for you most dont agree with your assessments and attemts to up todays fighters with the greats of the past. I pick Bowe to win, but again...size isnt everything.

 

Uncle Termite are you capable of change & growth?

You would & do deride the old timers who automatically favor older fighers.
You are just as extreme as preferring universally the more modern 7 larger ones.

THEY are wrong to automoatically discount size.
You make some good points, but besides being mean & mocking-& getting much of that back-in some posts...

You shoehorn ALL ****ysis into your preconceptions.

An example of your biases can be found in how you wround up opr down sizes-like down with Liston recently, to suit your agenda.
one must be rigorously honest to be credible. And CHECK.
I will let you check if Golota had anywhere approaching a 7' reach.

And you compared Holyfield's size to Liston by using a "prime"
Eander as 215 abs., when 1) most thought him prime ~ 1991 at 205.
2) The THREAD was about '91 Holyfield vs. prime Liston.

Oner also must be rigorously honest & not selectively slant facts.
YES Bowe was in shape at 230.
But you can easily see that Williams had less body fat.
Actually considering muscle per square inch, Williams likely had more. Do the math.

And Liston did set up things with his jab, he was no mondless plodder.

 

Lewis was fighting one of the strongest chinned boxers ever and underattedskills...obviously Mercer was tough,however i could have also used McCall or Rahamn both not on his level...why you think putting guys in others places works is beyond me...the fact a 6'0 liston is a mismatch for 6'5 Bowe does not include Lewis or mercer,for one mercer was about 6'2 230 pounds and could walk in front of lewis ,lets see liston try that and see how that goes? :-(

 

Evander could be ANY size of around 200 pounds,he wopuld still out box liston,though the greater chance is for him to be k.od...though i assume you would know 200 pounder Holy was much better than some 5'7 guys who liston fought correct? The probl;em is liston didn't fight these types of guys,be it bigger or same size better fighters...the one knock on him is comp.


Everything else you said are just copied from me,you are not really following the thread but jumping in with exception of Williams and more muscle which really i have no idea what that has got to do with a gigantic Bowe staring down on liston who was not as evasive as Holyfield would be.! :roll:



Holyfield had a 19 inch neck at a bigger weight at HW and et..etc....etc... this was covered already! the one thing i did FINALLY get wrong is golotas arm length which i thought was 80 something it is listed as 79 inches.


Another factor is the k.o percentage bowe rates slightly higher and took punches from much harder punchers than liston did,lets keep this real...bowe lost ONCE to a fast tough holy...liston flopped twice to a lighter jabber Ali...fixed or not it doesn't hold water for a strong argument,he was past his prime but who would the favorite be,the bigger guy fighting bigger guys or the guy who dominated small guys like Patterson?

 

A very good post Entaowed, but I don't think your message will sink in.

In answer to the thread question, I think Liston would knock Bowe out. The following is something of an over-simplification, but Bowe would be in Liston's punching range and that would suit Liston down to the ground.

 

1) Holyfiled may or may not survive to beat Liston.
Some 5' 7" guys Liston fought? You are again taking extreme examples & using them as typcial. That would have been a tiny opponent. show me actually WHO was 5' 7".
The knock on him as comp---> Is a fair one.


2) WHAT did I copy from you, huh? I am mostly DISPUTING your one sided approach. What are you talking about?

3) I followed the thread, & most all I ever commented on, with care.
You misunderstand. I merely used another example of you storting size, explictly. And not understanding that Williams had more muscle/less fat than Bowe. Did you HEAR me using it as an argument of who would win? No, please pay attention to details, or what the actual individial is saying.

4) Why bring up holyfield's neck (which was actually litsed as 19 1/2"...As if I mentioned this at all? Golota's reach is another example of you being if not intentionally deceptive showing exaggeration, incaution, wishful thinking...When the errors always support YOUR side of the argument.

5) Again i was not making the argument for Liston.
Bowe did not fight much great comp either, though fighting larger guys is a fair point.
The Ali story is not.
He was older & more past his prime than when Bowe was getting killed 2X vs. Golota. And unless you know his shoulder injury, confirmed after the fact, was fake, do not say he tanked twice.

To dismiss a peaking Ali as merely "lighter jabbing" betrays much bias. Ali hit him with lightning fast & some hard combinations.


This shows that your OBJECTIVITY is very compromised when you have an ideiological agenda.

Some old timers have it for the griizzled veterans.
They & you can make great cases about SOME things-like much more competition & much more fights making one tougher & better...And size is one FACTOR.

You make it almost a matter of religion.