Riddick Bowe underrated ?

I'm glad you said this, because I feel the same way. I have always felt that the garbage can incident was Rock Newman's brainchild, not Bowe's. Newman was an odd character, to say the least.
Granted, Lewis' spectacular knockout of Ruddock may have had something to do with Newman's decision (assuming of course, it was his) or it could have been nothing more than good old fashioned politics.
Perhaps Newman wanted the hype concerning the two fighters to build and build, eventually cashing in heavily when the fight was eventually announced?

Whatever the case, my personal viewpoint is that Riddick was more polished as a fighter than Lewis at that stage of their careers, and a win for Bowe would have been a distinct possibility.

I think Riddick's problem was that he was by nature a lazy slob, to be honest. When on top form he was an excellent fighter, with the necessary size, power, durability and boxing smarts to be hell for anyone in that era.

Question his commitment if you will, but there was nothing wrong with his heart or the overall package he brought to the ring.

PS-I think he went 3-0 against Evander. I had him winning the 2nd fight by a single point.

 

If Bowe is underrated, it is utterly his own fault.
Eddie Futch deserved a better, more dedicated final student.

 

Great post Sonny,

Rock Newman was certainly a *****. He was constantly shooting his mouth off, starting fights with other fighters managers and basically making a spectacle of himself. I have always blamed him for Bowe not fighting Lewis, and felt that he did his fighter no service by being responsible for that fight not happening.

As for Riddick's comp, I agree as well. One thing that is commonly overlooked, is that he was never Ko'd in his 45 pro fights, and took two out of 3 against the only man who beat him. That's coming pretty damn close to being undefeated if anyone asks me. The Golata fights did him no service, but I truly believe that Riddick was past his best, and Golata was fighting horribly dirty on top of everything else. I don't know how well I'd do if some body was constantly hitting me in the nuts all night long.

Bowe indeed beat some good fighters like you say. Piere Coetzer was a better fighter than people give him credit for and was a solid number one contender in June of 1992, when they had there title elimination match. He was a sculpted specimen who was reasonably young at age 30, and was actively fighting beating decent comp before meeting Bowe. Seldon was an OK fighter. Gonzalez, Donald and Hide as you say were at least undefeated.

Bowe has my vote as a top 15 or 20 guy.

 

If we list, say:

DeJohn
Machen
Williams
Foley
Harris

How do you think they stack up against Bowe's wins outside of Holyfield? (taking into account the stage of the career all were in when they fought, of course)

I left Bethea off because i don't think anyone considers this a big win for Liston. He was a journeyman.


Larry Donald was the best win outside of Holyfield, in my opinion. Bowe perhaps scared him a bit during that press conference. It's too bad Donald didn't fight good opposition after that fight until very late. He beat Valuev on my card in 2005 when he was 38 and shut Holyfield out.

I don't give him the benefit of the doubt because there is no doubt. He was promised as title shot at Holyfield under the condition that he'd face the winner of Ruddock/Lewis afterwards. When Lewis knocked Ruddock out in impressive and one-sided fashion after Tyson went 17 knockoutless rounds with him, he then didn't want to keep his word and not fight Lewis. He rather gave up his title than to face Lewis. What did he do afterwards? He fought two nobodies. Remember that Lennox had stopped Bowe in two rounds during the olypmics. I don't see how there can be any doubt about Bowe not wanting any part of Lewis.

He disgraced the championship and was steered away from dangerous fights/punchers his entire career, except for Golota who retired him and with stunning ease. Holyfield II was seen as an easy fight before hand and a repetition of a good big guy beating a good small guy.

 

Difficult to rate him imo ,he is a what might have been,good skills great infighter but flawed in character,I thought he had more potential the Lennox Lewis.

 

I agree with everything you said, however in regards to the third fight with Holyfield, I'm not sure exactly how dangerous Evander was still viewed as being by both the Bowe camp and the general public. This was a man who had lost to Michael Moorer, then took a leave from the sport for over a year due to a heart problem, and was around 33 or 34 years old by the time he faced Bowe in the rubber match. I'm fairly certain Riddick's people and Bowe himself were confident that Holy wouldn't be much of a threat. As it turned out though, Evander was couragious and floored him once in a competitive fight.

My thoughts.

 

He does'nt belong

Bowe fought 1 A fighter in Holyfield 1 B fighter Golota and a whole slew of C HWS

And this in the second strongest HW era and the most puncher heavy division at HW of all time.

Bowe loses the Holyfield trilogy and he does not get mentioned today.

 

Valid points, but perhaps a tad oversimplified. I certainly agree that Bowe needed to face a few more "A" level fighters to tighten up his legacy, but as it stands, his credentials and accomplishments were still fairly admirable. For one, he took two out of three against a man who commonly makes most people's top 10 list, and his only defeat was a close decision to the same man. He was never Ko'd in 44 fights, and frankly I would probably rate Coetzer, Hide, Gonzalez and Donald as "B" level fighters rather than "C". The Golata bouts hurt his legacy a bit, but I think he was declining by that point and facing a rather dirty fighter.

The best contestants of the 90's outside of himself were Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson and Moorer. One of them was abscent from the scene for most of Bowe's prime. Another he beat twice, while one was Ko'd by George Foreman, and the last is probably the only note worthy fighter that he failed to meet. The Lewis match not happening was probably just as much his manager's doing as it was his own.

Let me clearify that I don't rate Bowe as a top 10 man, but he still had a significant legacy worthy of great mentioning. If Ken Norton, Jerry Quarry, Joe Walcott, and Floyd Patterson, were hall of famers, then I think we can easily ad Bowe to that teir, especially considering that he may very well be a bit better than at least half of them.

 

Wow...

Great post.

 

Riddick Bowe I would say is slightly underrated. He had perhaps the best inside fighting skills of the big heavyweights in the last 15 years. He didn't look good both times against Andrew Golota, regardless of the low blows, but his wars with Holyfield are the most memorable.

I blame Bowe, Lewis and Tyson for not getting it done against each other in the early-mid 90's, especially when Tyson returned after his exile. Boxing needed these matches and watching Bowe toss the WBC belt into the trash avoiding a fight with Lennox Lewis was not the most popular moment in his career. Lewis beat him in the olympics, which should have given Bowe incentive to avenge that loss but he didn't.

 

I pretty much agree on your views of their opposition outside of Patterson/Holyfield. I was gonna say that Liston was a bit lucky to catch such a relatively weak division, after all, the guys he beat were the best around, but they're on the same level as Bowe's opposition who were clearly not the best around. But let's not go off topic.

Not sure if you're implying it, but i didn't and don't call Bowe a coward. The guts he showed against Golota (rematch) is incredible, his heart inside the ring is up there with anyone, literally.

BUT! I think you're too easy in blaming Newman. You almost pretend asif Bowe was brainless puppet that was controlled by him. If Bowe would've wanted to fight his mandatory and be the best in the world, he could've done it and made a fortune regardless of the outcome.

Newman's plan was clear: make money by fighting lesser opponents and doing that popularity tour through Africa. Bowe obliged.

Yes, but i think you under-estimate the mental aspect of getting stopped by someone. Even if logic should say that Bowe/Lewis would've been close to 50/50, the mind is not logic and will try to steer you clear from the guy that humiliated you at the olympics and just scored a devastating second round knockout against a high-regarded fighter.

Well he took Holyfield on because that was for the title. Hard to steer away from that if you wanna accomplish anything.

But i would like to point out that at that time, Holyfield wasn't high regarded as a heavyweight at all. He was seen as great cruiserweight who was waiting to get knocked out by Mike Tyson. Many felt his power was way insufficient to deal with those bigger fighters; the struggles he had to put away Dokes, Thomas, Foreman and Holmes confirmed that for many. Douglas was fat and quit, Foreman and Holmes were old and Dokes was erratic.

I know that i'm making things sound one-sidedly against Holyfield now, but this is how most people viewed it! I suggest you re-watch Holyfield-Bowe, many expected Holyfield to lose because this was the first big heavyweight in his prime that he fought. And after he did, their thoughts were confirmed, hence Newman's happiness to take a rematch. As Magoo pointed out, Holyfield was seen as washed up in their 3rd fight. In hindsight we know he still had a lot left as he showed against Tyson, but seeing how he tired/got some steroid syndrom/did too many weights, it seems to be more of a matter of Holyfield losing than Bowe winning. Especially considering Holyfield did very well early and had Bowe out on his feet in the 6th with Evander lacking the stamina to take advantage. Again, Bowe proved his heart though.

Golota wasn't seen as a threat at all. He surprised the whole world with his performance. Gonzalas, Hide and Donald were good wins and you could indeed say they were threats.

He didn't duck anyone besides Lewis though.