Riddick Bowe vs. Joe Louis

Show me one fight where Louis fights someone as good as Holyfield or Bowe.

 

I think Louis was a bigger man than Holyfield.

if you built up Ezzard Charles on a body building course he would become Evander Holyfield, and Joe Louis would still be the taller bigger boned man beside him.

 

They lied about the stats when it came to the period Evander fought in. For size, Holyfield was identical to Ezzard Charles. You only have to look at him in the ring as a cruiser. Theses stats are baloney and have been for years. You can only go by how they look beside similar sized fighters in the ring. Evander was shorter than Larry Holmes in the ring. Ali was the same height in the ring with Holmes. And Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis were photoed many times together and looked the exact same size.

it is difficult to imagine how Evander could be better than Joe Louis. It took him two times to beat Bowe, who never beat anyone else any good, and then he lost to moorer then Bowe again. There is nobody Bowe or Moorer beat that Joe Louis would not also beat. Any decision to put Holyfield over Louis falls down at that point.

And yet prime Tyson would never lose to Micheal Moorer.

This case cannot really be made. When you study the depth of fighters equally as closely it just isn’t possible. It really is not. All three are great fighters..but Evander is not the equal of Ali or Louis. He showed no clear dominance over the division. And the evidence that his era was especially strong falls down when old fighters from the 1970s and middleweights competed for titles.

 

Height is not really that relevant concerning Holy and Louis anyways- I was more refuting the claim that they had similar actual "mass" PEDs made Holyfield a very herculean figure. I find Holyfield in every shape and form be it Film, Resume or H2H ability he is Joes superior I do not think that my opinion on that matter will ever change.

Are you implying his era was weak because older ATG HWs whom are a lock for the top 10 got shots at the title? seems a tad silly and irrelevant

 

of course you are entitled to uphold this belief. But under scrutiny it won’t really hold as well in front of the majority of evidence and opinion.

suggesting as you do that Holyfield relied upon illegal artificial physical enhancement to achieve heavyweight greatness is in itself admission that he did not do it on his own.

it took Evander two times to beat Bowe and two times to beat Moorer. Neither Moorer or Bowe beat anyone else any good.

not especially weak, but greater fighters were less relevant as old men in other eras. Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier and Joe Louis were less successful in comebacks than Foreman and Holmes were able to be in the 1990s.

 

The problem with Holyfield, is that he blew hot and cold.

 

Louis was about the size that Holyfield was when he won the heavyweight title from James Douglas.

There isn't a nicklesworth of difference between them at that point, and I suspect that Holyfield was lifting even then.

No I don't, and nor do I expect that he would need to.

He would probably stop Bowe before it came to that, and if he couldn't, the he would have boxed a lot more cautiously.

 

Very difficult fight for both men.

I see Louis getting off first but not getting out of the way fast enough to avoid what Bowe throws back.

Bowe will trade with Louis and its only a matter of time before he drops to his knees from an uppercut or series of hooks to the side of the head.

Bowe's willingness to trade in close and his great skill in throwing short hooks and uppercuts in close makes this a very hard fight for Louis.

 

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No. What I'm saying is that comparing the results of Tony Galento and Nathan Mann to Holyfield and Bowe is daft.

 

How is it a strawman? None of Louis' opponents were good enough to have success in that manner. Holyfield and Bowe were. Also, putting Louis on the mat, to me, constitutes some success.

Louis would win here, but it wouldn't be an easy night.

 

Because one, Louis' opponents did have success. And two, both Bowe and Holyfield were much better than all of Louis' opponents that stood in front of him. What's hard to understand about that? If Tony Galento and Arturo Godoy can have success - and they did - so can much, much better fighters in Holyfield and Bowe.

Holyfield might not have good toe-to-toe with Foreman the whole fight, but he did often. Did you miss the seventh? Also, Louis didn't go toe-to-toe with Baer. What of it?