Riddick Bowe vs. Joe Louis

Holyfield would have been the 2nd hardest puncher Marciano would have faced if they fought. Bowe would be the first skilled SHW Marciano fought aswell. I don't like his chances against either. His best chance would be force Holyfield into a slugfest to increase his chance of victory - but even then I think Holyfield would outslug him.

 

2nd? After Louis?

 

Yep

 

I'll take Joe Louis to break down Bowe. Probably stop him over 15.

 

Exactly. Most people did.

 

Okay, we'll go by your definition. Do you mean to say that no fighter who stood in front of prime Louis could beat him, because none did?

What do you mean, ad hominem? Towards who? You, Louis or Galento? Because I can confirm right now that I have absolutely nothing against you, I love Louis and couldn't give a flying **** about Galento. Furthermore, I don't care if you haven't brought up Galento. You've brought up fighters who stood toe-to-toe with Louis. As someone who both stood and traded, and dropped Louis, it should be expected that his name gets brought up. And there's been no strawman. I've addressed your points as best as I can, even if some of them don't make sense.

Alright, sorry. I won't use your name again. Although I would like to remind you that you've already shared it online when we did the podcast.

 

IMO prime Heavyweight Holyfield would've been to big for Moore. I'd say that fight is a 80-20 in Holyfield's favour.

Walcott was already a champ when he fought Marciano the first time and then he lost the immediate rematch. And I'm not saying that they didn't deserve shots at Marciano, or even that Marciano loses to Holyfield because he had trouble with those guys. I'm just saying that while yes Marciano was better than some guys who gave Holy trouble, Holy was also better than some guys who gave Marciano trouble.

 

It’s not so much losing to Holyfield, it’s that there isn’t much else there on Bowes record. The best guy he beat also beat him. And this around the time when Moorer could also hand Holyfield a defeat. This is no demonstration of world domination is it?

Louis beat everyone there was to beat. And they were nearly all world class fighters. Louis must have some kind of record for knocking out the most rated opponents. A crazy percentage of Joe Louis pre championship opponents were not fall guys at all. Many of them were live actual world class contenders. Guys like Retzlaff, lee Ramage, Bob pastor, Patsy Peroni, paulino Uzcudun, Roy Lazar, Al Attore were all better fighters than any that Bowe fought before he got a title shot. And that’s not mentioning Max Baer, Carnera and Sharkey.

Then there are the twenty odd title defences.

Even in his retirement Louis knocked out contenders in exhibitions. Discounting the opponent that beat him, I honestly believe it is not possible to make a case for a single one of Riddick Bowes opponents to beat even the 1951 comeback version of Joe Louis.

 

I cannot share your confidence here. I think of the punches taken from Qawi who was smaller than Holyfield, Evander made hard work of Dokes and Cooper who were no bigger than he was at the time. In fact, Cooper even used a cross arm defence and none of the craftiness yet still he surprised Evander.

This is a fair opinion that I can accept.

 

Holyfield whooped his ass in the rematch so theres that.

 

Bowe got hit too easy. However, Louis could most certainly be dropped during the fight, and once he got up he might try to firefight Bowe, which might be a big mistake for the former. Bowe could hit really hard, in fact his uppercut wasn't too far away from Foreman level...and significantly faster. All that said, I think Bowe would be overwhelmed at key points in the fight. Louis by UD, but I'm not sure at all it would be a lopsided decision. Bowe had undeniable skills.

 

Dokes and Cooper were both bigger than the Moore of the Marciano fight when they fought Holyfield. Also I think Holyfield had elite level boxing ability, but that he had the heart of a brawler, which is why he went to war with guys who he really should have handled with little trouble. He usually fought to the level of his opponents.
I think at cruiserweight where Holy was smaller and less experienced, the fight could've been pretty winnable for Moore, but that at heavyweight, prime Holy would've been too strong for Moore on the inside and would've broken him down

 

But it took two times to beat him.

 

And Yet Nino Valdes and Bob Baker were even bigger than Evander yet they were beaten by Archie. This size argument is but one facet between Evander who we know fought to the level of who he was fighting.

Right. He fought to the level of his opponents which is why he struggled so much with veterans like Larry and George. Or journey men like Cooper, or southpaws like Moorer or brawlers like Mercer.fought the wrong fight against Bowe fist time. Had some kind of weird seizure that prevented him from knocking out Bowe when he was defenceless. Evander was exciting because he was not reliable.

I am not saying Evander didn’t know how to use strength to his advantage by the time he was much older, around the time he beat Tyson, but by then he has still been beaten by Moorer and twice by Bowe. Archie Moore can beat anyone Moorer ever beat. But Was Evander really prime against Tyson or was it just another PED enhanced prime? When was he ever too clever for Archie Moore? I don’t think he ever was too clever for Moore. That’s why I think it’s a 50-50.