Riddick Bowe

Another one hypnotized by the feel good myth of old George .

What ranked elite HWS and unbeaten real prospects did Old Foreman beat ?.

He beat Moorer the most weak chinned of the HW champions of the 90s and deserves a modicum of respect for that.

Foremans 90s carreer was alot of smoke and mirrors .

Other then getting title shots mostly based on name alone Foreman fought a pretty weak weak bunch and AVOIDED most elite fighters unless it was for a title .

I am more impressed with 90s Holmes since he actually did beat an elite fighter in Mercer to get his title shot. Foreman edges Holmes because he did win the title from Moorer. If Foreman had lost the fight with Moorer i would have ranked him below Holmes in the 90s.

 

I've always had some very mixed feelings about George Foreman's comeback. Granted, he probably inspired a lot of people to continue to chase their dreams and to push themselves regardless of their advancing age; I think that's an admirable response to elicit. And I think that Foreman winning the title at age 45 was and is a tremendous achievement. However, for all the positives that you can bestow upon Foreman's comeback, you can find just as many negatives.

The fact that George came back with his slogan of "40 is not a death sentence" was a good one. But George was like a politician who had to run on something; he had to base his campaign(comeback) on something, so he adopted his schtick and his nice guy routine and proceeded to fight bum after bum in the hopes of landing a title shot without ever really fighting a dangerous opponent.

And that's always been a huge gripe with me about Foreman. Foreman learned that popularity and a charismatic attitude could open a lot of doors - doors that should have only been open via boxing matches against worthy opponents.

And Foreman knocked out MIchael Moorer which was unbelievable. But the facts remain that not only did George Foreman not earn that shot against Moorer - remember he lost to MOrrison right before that - but he also was losing that fight terribly before landing a punch that more than a few people view as being of the lucky variety.

And going back further, George took quite a beating against Holyfield in a title fight that again he didn't really earn. Did it bother George that there were probably more deserving younger fighters out there who should have been fighting for the title at the time? His comeback started to reek of greed and opportunism at all costs.

And saying that the age of 40 is not a death sentence is one thing. Actually getting in the ring and proving it is quite another. And in Foreman's case, his real message seemed to be that the age of 40 is not a death sentence as long as you are carefully managed, as long as you handpick every opponent, and as long as you possess an enormous amount of physical strength! Oh, and also are popular enough to be given opportunities that you really don't deserve.

Foreman started his comeback saying that his main reason for coming back was to finance his youth center AND to win back the heavyweight championship.

I wonder which of those reasons was more important? And how important was it for George to "finance" his own pocket book as well? Could it be that George really just wanted to be a millionaire again after admittedly starting his comeback at a time that he was almost broke?

 

Good points! I too believe that Larry Holmes legitimately earned his shot against Holyfield in a way that Foreman did not.

And I agree totally with your assessment of George Foreman's comeback. While it was definitely entertaining and made for good copy, the meat of Foreman's comeback was rather lacking.

 

Am I really hypnotized, or am I just seeing something that you're obviously too blind to see yourself? Frankly, if you're evaluating Foreman's second career by the same standards that one would use to critique a young prospect coming out of the 1988 olympics, then I'd say you've missed the beauty of the phenomenon by a tradgically wide margin..

I don't recall ever using the word " elite ", but returning after a 10 year abscence at the age of 39 to compile 31 wins including, at least 5 ranked opponents, 4 unbeaten foes, and a lineal champion, is rather impressive in my book. Or perhaps you can name one heavyweight who acheived the same or similar feat, and under the same circumstances.

A modicum of respect for convincingly knocking out the recognized lineal champion of the world, and in so doing becoming the oldest man in history to wear the belt. As for your opinions on Moorer, let me ask you in your ( expert opinion ), who you felt was more deserving of the position as best in the world in 1994? I'll remind you that Moorer was a 34-0 professional in the prime of his career who had just beaten Evander Holyfield. Holyfield had in turn beaten Riddick Bowe, and Lennox got his ass handed to him by McCall two months prior to Foreman beating Moorer, while Tyson was still in exhile. So who was it that Foreman was suppose to beat God King? Uh? Who? Was there some hidden force in the heavyweight division around November of 1994 that I'm unaware of, or are you just confusing Moorer with OJ Simpson?

Ignorant beyond belief.

If winning the heavyweight title was some sort of bull**** hoax, then I guess any man to ever become champ was a pure fraud.

Who did Bowe fight to deserve getting a shot at the title. A fat ass old Tony Tubbs who some felt beat him? Who did Tyson beat after 4 years in exhile to get a shot at an alpha trincket? Peter McKneely and Buster Mathis? Who did Tucker beat to climb back into the ratings? We can play this game all night long if you choose. The difference between Foreman and those other guys, is at least he fought often, and won impressively.

Had it not been for Foreman launching a comeback, Holmes never would have gotten the idea, nor toyed with the notion in the first place. Again, you miss the point. He set the example. Foreman wins 24 fights between 1987 to 1990. He signs to fight Holyfield for April of 1991. All of a sudden, Holmes appears in the ring that same month against Tim " doc " Anderson. Soon after, Leon Spinks, Jerry Quarry and whole bunch of other has beens decide that they can do what Foreman did....Didn't happen..... As for your greater admiration for the Easton Assasin, I disagree that he was more deserving of a title shot than was Foreman. Foreman won 24 fights with 23 KO's, including early round dustings of ranked contender Addilson Rodriguez and a few respectable journeyman. Holmes fought 6 times, with only one notable win, and he lands in the ring with Holyfield. I can remember people saying what a joke they felt it was, and that boxing had really stooped to an all time low giving the man who had been beaten by Spinks and iced in 4 rounds by Tyson another crack at the throne. The fight was a flop by the way, and the Foreman fight was far more entertaining. At least when Goerge fought Evander, the concept was a bit more original. Like his inability to come up with his own slogans, Holmes needed to bootleg other peoples' marketing strategies as well.

Tell ya what. Let's do it this way. Why don't we eliminate both men's best victories and see what we have left from there on out? Are you ready? Here we go. Foreman as of this moment, no longer has his colossal win over Michael Moorer, and nor does Holmes over Ray Mercer. Now, let's take a look at their second tier lists. Foreman still has wins over a 36-0 Lou Savarese,ranked contender Adilson Rodriguez, fringe contender Alex Stewart, fringe contender Pierre Coetzer and an easy destruction of Bert Cooper. He may have been gifted a decision against Schultz, but then again he was likely robbed in the last fight of his career against a prime Shannon Briggs who was possibly one of the best young heavyweights in 1997. So I suppose we can swap those two interchangably, giving George the win over Briggs, and tagging on a loss to Schultz, which Frankly, helps him in the long run. Now let's talk about Holmes. Remember, the Mercer win is gone. So what else is there? The exhumed remains of Jesse Ferguson and Jose Ribalta? How about the ever so athletic Butterbean? Paul Poirier perhaps?

I think I've made my point. Nothing left to do here.

 

Keep us updated Q. I find this intriguing.

 

Very interesting post, and I agree with much of it. However, I feel we're hijacking a thread that belongs to Bowe.
I'll start a new thread on this, since there seems to be a decent argument for both sides of the coin.

 

HE probably rope a doped because he didnt have the stamina to move or push his opponent back.

If your taking hooks from Kevin McBride your DONE

 

SuzieQ49, how does Bowe look? Is he as fat as he was in Zumbrun fight? Does he train really hard? And ask him, will he fight this summer. Ask him about Povetkin fight. There are many rumors on Russian boxing sites about Bowe being one of POvetkin potential opponents on July 19. I hope he wouldn’t fight Povetkin, because he looked completely shot in his last fight, which was 3 years ago. I’m big fan of Riddick but I think he shouldn’t fight anymore. I don’t want to see him get a beating like in Golota fight again.

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Bowe vs Povetkin would be ugly. Bowe probably still has a lot of durability, it will be a prolonged beating in which Povetkin looks bad because he can't put Bowe away, and Bowe looks his brain damaged self.

 

Stop the madness Foreman AVOIDED alot of the elite hws of the 90s.

And no excluding the his win over the weak chinned Moorer without his name his record in the 90s is barely above Mercers.

And Foreman 90s carreer was fighting third tier fighters and getting undeserved title shots

You think Savarese was a good win :roll: .

And dont mention Steward as a ''win'' for Foreman without his name he would never have gotten the decision.

Holmes beat a ranked legit ELITE HW in Mercer more then Foreman did excluding his lucky win over Moorer (And yes it was lucky i dont buy Foremans story that he planned it that way)

The fact that you count Savarese Rodriguez Sweward and Coetzer as Foremans best wins shows that you know that outside of getting undeserved titleshots his record is pretty thin Those guys where third tier hws at best.

I respect him for winnign againt Moorer that it other then that his 90s record is pretty poor.

Foreman is a clear example of the myth being greater then the man

 

I'd say his record is well above Mercer's by far and beyond...

His first shot against Holyfield was well earned. The only two men who were arguably as deserving were fighting each other. One of whom had padded his record as much as Foreman by fighting aging veterans, while the other had recently been bested by Buster Douglas, so I'd say that the margin of entitlement wasn't much.

Well, given that Foreman was now 46ish? And Savarese was a ranked contender with a record of 36-0. Uh...Yeah I'd say that it was a pretty good win.

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1. I think Moorer at 34-0, and holding the lineal title was at a more elite level than Mercer was.

2. I think Foreman's knockout of Moorer, was exactly as he had planned it. Of course, I think he had hoped for an earlier outcome, but I think a knockout was always the intention. I don't think that he walked into that fight expecting to win a decision, nor losing... Do you?

No sir, I simply listed these wins as better secondary victories than that of Larry Holmes during the comeback years of both these men's careers. My claim was only in response to your ridiculous comment that Holmes had a better run than Foreman. If we take away the Moorer win for Foreman, and the Mercer win for Holmes, then how does the score pan out??? Foreman beat several ranked fighters, and a few undefeated prospects. Who in the hell did Holmes beat? Jesse Ferguson and Butterbean? This is the second time that I've tried to explain this to you, please don't make me do it again.

No, it's quite the opposite.
In this case, the man is greater than the myth. Foreman set a trend that many athletes, and even citizens followed. He also did more than even he endeavored to do.

CONCLUSION: You really need to adjust your views on Foreman, given that you have clearly demonstrated in this post that you have very little perspective on the issue. My guess, is that you probably weren't even sober when you typed this post, given that I've seen your typing abilities before, and the level of emotion that went into this. Please be more subjective when discussing the subject..........

 

How is McBride's health anyway? He took an awful beating against Golota. Losing to Golota is one of the most physically damaging things one can undergo.


Who do you think has more left at this point, Bowe or McBride?