Rigodeaux v.s Willie Pep

Saddler could win 14 rounds to 2, and those judges back then were still going to rob him. Pep was the popular white fighter of the time. Saddler was the rugged Black fighter. Let's not act like Saddler would get a fair shake on the cards. He may have, he may not have. Didn't matter, either way when you KO someone, or have them quit in the corner between rounds.

 

Pep's movement and defense were a bit ahead of his time judging from most old footage I have seen. Funny though, how certain fighters who use that style today are called runners.

 

Cuban boxers don't hold all the cards. Pep has demonstrated his completeness not only as a defensive boxer but as an all-terrain fighter, period. His strength was in his ability to blend these attributes rather than his defence.
With that said, Rigo is a top fighter and I don't feel it a sin to rate him as highly as you do.

 

You'll have to understand the era. It's much like the amateur landscape today, but more extreme. The average Olympic medalist of 2012 had a win-loss ratio of around 3:1 and we find ratios of 1:1. On top of that was that they were using fights as educated sparring sessions/learning experiences, neccessities so they can eat, they spent more time dedicating themselves to learning and perfecting their trade rather than cutting weight. When you assess the fighters from that era, you'll see for yourself they're not cab drivers, their skill level is impressive and IMO it was around the golden age. Willie was nevertheless learning the trade, but in the light of all that I've mentioned, 62-0 was an impressive feat. But yes, to me they're no Rigo lol.

 

I don't disagree. Rigondeaux is a bit of an outlier to me in this generation of Cuban boxers. And I also acknowledge Pep as an ATG. His defense was ahead of his time.

 

The Pep that we have footage of is not to the standard that he would be if he were to take time off and then prepare for a long training camp. That, is a frightening thought. Yeah for me Rigo and Kindelan were a head above the rest, post-Savon.

 

Good point.

 

That he got 500k to go to Japan is genuinely very interesting. I'm not quite sure how they justified paying him that much money but good luck to him for securing that payday.

Unfortunately it doesn't help his case in the way it might as it shows him going after the most money rather than the legacy enhancing fight. I don't mind that but Rigo fans get on their high horses about the likes of Frampton chasing the bigger paying fights rather than a less lucrative but - for more astute fans at least - career defining one with him.

 

Not interesting at all, there are so many trolls and Rigs haters that they start making stuff up, and then spreading the falsehoods around like they are true. Just like saying nobody watches Rigondeaux. His HBO viewership numbers were solid under the circumstances of the date of the fights, and better than many other HBO fighters. Listening to Rigondeaux haters though, you would think he had the lowest viewership numbers in HBO history, which is something that Joe Calzaghe actually had the honor of if I recall correctly.

In other countries the pure boxing skill of someone like Rigondeaux is admired by fans. Not reviled like it is in the U.S. by fans who prefer face first brawls with minimal skill. Guys like Frampton and Quigg would have still done good numbers and made good money fighting Rigondeaux over in the UK. Butts would have been in the seats. They would have just both gotten their faces broken, and been humiliated in front of their home crowds.

 

Well, pre-plane crash Pep's one loss was to Sammy Angott, who used a combination of range control in the opening rounds, and then his trademark mauling and clinching to neutralize Pep in the latter portion of their fight. That style and those attributes troubled Pep in that fight- and in his fights with Saddler.

Saddler could also command range using his height and a very stiff jab, plus he was also known for mauling and rough-housing in the rounds that followed. He also had a knack for drawing opponents into the trenches and engaging in wrestling matches in close with them.

(Let the record show that Pep was hardly an angel in the ring, and was pretty well versed in the dark arts, too.)

To top it off, he might just head the list of hardest hitters in the history of a division that has featured the likes of Arguello, Armstrong, McGovern and the aforementioned Wright.

That means that, even before the plane crash, there's less room for error for Pep than for Saddler. He could get blasted out, or worn down in a messy affair against someone who wasn't concerned about the methods used to win fights. In contrast, he stands less chance of beating Saddler in the trenches and probably wasn't ever going to be able to stop an ultra-durable opponent. The best he can hope to do is outbox him, which proved to be an awfully difficult and perilous task in the one instance it actually occurred.

That;s why I think Saddler wins more often than not against Pep. Great as Pep was, there are just too many ways in which things could go sideways against a guy who held advantages in terms of size, strength and style.

One final note to make in the post...

Pep obviously didn't come back all the way following the plane crash, but I don't think he was thatfar removed from his best, either. Coming into the first fight with Saddler, he'd won 26 straight and had defended his championship a couple of times against capable opponents. He'd go on to rattle off three more defenses and win sixteen in a row before meeting Saddler the third time around. So, it wasn't like anyone else in the division was troubling him in the same way that Saddler did. Saddler just presented Pep with problems that in a way that no other featherweight at the time could really emulate.

 

Once in 150 fights...in the very early portion of his career. But yeah, he was pretty damned durable.

 

No, you didn't leave slots open. Pep fought two rematches. He only had 60 opponents in those first 62 fights. You were calling them all bums. Done with you, troll. Have a good day.

 

Explain Henry Armstrong beating Champions Lou Ambers and Barney Ross by decision?

Or hey about that bum, Chalky White who got a disputed decision win Costantino in New York City?

You know nothing, troll.

Or hey about..how about watching actual footage of Pep outboxing Saddler in these fights? Do you think Saddler swinging at air and getting caught with clean counters is being robbed of these rounds?

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Why do you think there was a 4th fight? Saddler was getting outboxed convincingly in the third fight until Pep retired with the shoulder injury. However you want to spin it as part of Saddler's tactics, it wasn't a convincing win.

Why do you think he held his own so well with Saddler? It was his older body that failed him in the last two fights.

This is the same for every boxer vs puncher match up. The boxer always has a smaller margin of error.

That is true, but it doesn't mean that Saddler simply had his number. Saddler only beat Pep with punches twice in 4 attempts, and that 4th attempt was assisted by Saddler grabbing Pep, and grinding his head into his cut over and over while hitting him with borderline legal punches. Outside of the first fight, where Pep got shocked, none of these wins were remotely easy and two ended from injuries either caused or assisted by fouls. And all this while Pep was declinedand Saddler had peaked.

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Pep was something else. And to think that was him past his best days.