[RING, Aug. 1945] Jack Johnson picks Jeffries, Fitz, and Langford to ko Louis

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018.


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  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Interesting stuff. Was part of Fleischer's "Nat Fleischer Says" column in the August 1945 edition of the Ring (p.5)


    Nat Fleischer says: Jack Johnson Names Louis’ Superiors Picks Jeffries, Fitzsimmons, Langford

    Jack Johnson, looking younger by ten years than he should appear at the age of sixty-seven, visited the offices of THE RING to thank me for choosing him as the No. 1 heavyweight of all time in general all-around ability. The champ greeted me with his golden smile: “I came to say hello while on my way to a theatrical agency that seeks my services for a few weeks, and to thank you for that article in Look Magazine in which you picked me as the leading heavyweight.”

    Jack, you’d be amazed at the letters I received taking issue with me for my choice, I remarked. Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis are the popular heroes with the boys of today and any attempt to place the oldtimers above these two seems to get under the skin of these lads, I told him. With that, began a discussion on heavyweights and fighters of today compared to those of the past that lasted for more than an hour.

    The Galveston Giant is a splendid linguist, a fine talker whose arguments carry a stamp of authority. Taking up the ten fighters listed by Jack Dempsey in his recent choice of men who gave him his toughest battles and the answer of Jack Sharkey that followed the publication of Dempsey’s list, Johnson analyzed the field and drew these conclusions:

    1—That James J. Jeffries, Bob Fitzsimmons and Sam Langford would have knocked out Joe Louis at his best. He named Sam, in particular, declaring that though Langford was not a clever boxer, he was a most powerful hitter and that he could have gotten to Joe’s jaw with telling effect because Louis has repeatedly proved that he can be hit by ordinary fighters.

    2—That Jeffries, Fitz and Langford would have licked Dempsey in his prime, but not as readily as they could have beaten Louis.

    3—He was confident that when in his prime, he could have taken everything Joe or Jack could have dished out, and would have emerged the victor on points because he could have outmaneuvered either Dempsey or Louis.

    4—That Jack Sharkey would not have lasted many rounds with any of the fifteen leading heavyweights of Johnson’s time. Sharkey would have been knocked cold by men like Ketchel, Burns, Jeannette, McVey, Langford, and Hank Griffin and would have been a cinch on points against such stars as George Gardner, Philadelphia Jack O’Brien, Jim Corbett, Gene Tunney, Tommy Ryan, Jack Root or Marvin Hart.

    5—Primo Carnera was the poorest excuse for a heavyweight king the ring ever had.

    6—That in order of ability, the best fighters Johnson met were James J. Jeffries, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns, George Gardner, Hank Griffin, Jack O’Brien, Joe Jeannette and Joe Choynski.

    7—That his toughest battle was one not listed in any record book, a 65-round contest with Hank Griffin in 1899 at Bakersfield, California, with Watson Burns as the referee. The bout ended in a knockout with Johnson the winner. According to Jack, Hank collapsed in the sixty-fifth round from the heat and exhaustion as much as from the terrific body punishment he had received. It was the longest battle Johnson ever fought.

    Winding up our little interview, Johnson informed me that he has been travelling about the country, looking over young talent. “I’m eager to get one or two good lads in any division, and teach them what I can. I’m hunting for a heavyweight and I saw two but they are in the army now and already hooked up with some manager. I saw two fine lightweights who are still in uniform but they, too, already have a manager. I hope to get at least two good boys from the service because the servicemen of today will be the champs of tomorrow, in my opinion. Louis, Conn, Lesnevich, Zale, Abrams, and many others now in uniform, will be stale when they get out of uniform. They never again will be as good as they were before joining Uncle Sam’s forces. This will be particularly true of Louis and Conn. Four years of idleness in actual ring warfare, hasn’t done either any good.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018
    #1
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  2. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    Interesting but not surprising
     
    robert ungurean, Jul 2, 2018
    robert ungurean, Jul 2, 2018
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  3. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jack Johnson never liked Joe Louis, always ran him down in the press and rooted for him to lose all the time.

    The black press even got sick of Johnson running down Louis and stopped interviewing him.

    And if Jeffries and Burns and Ketchel were among the best he felt he fought, that isn't saying much. Jeffries was a heavy bag in that fight. Burns was down in the opening seconds and was carried. The Ketchel fight was fixed with both guys agreeing not to go for the KO. Those were the "best" guys he fought?

    If someone popped a jab in Johnson's face 50 or 60 times a round and circled around the ring instead of coming right at him, Johnson would've been lost.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
    Dubblechin, Jul 2, 2018
    Dubblechin, Jul 2, 2018
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  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    I think that probably holds true for a lot of older champions, but especially Johnson. Within reason, obviously. I don't think that just any clown with a jab could pull it off, but it wouldn't take a fellow legendary ATG either, imo.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018
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  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I tend to agree more with Johnson when he removes himself from the argument. So point #3 is BS.

    1—That James J. Jeffries, Bob Fitzsimmons and Sam Langford would have knocked out Joe Louis at his best. He named Sam, in particular, declaring that though Langford was not a clever boxer, he was a most powerful hitter and that he could have gotten to Joe’s jaw with telling effect because Louis has repeatedly proved that he can be hit by ordinary fighters.

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    2—That Jeffries, Fitz and Langford would have licked Dempsey in his prime, but not as readily as they could have beaten Louis.

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    3—He was confident that when in his prime, he could have taken everything Joe or Jack could have dished out, and would have emerged the victor on points because he could have outmaneuvered either Dempsey or Louis.

    This content is protected


    4—That Jack Sharkey would not have lasted many rounds with any of the fifteen leading heavyweights of Johnson’s time. Sharkey would have been knocked cold by men like Ketchel, Burns, Jeannette, McVey, Langford, and Hank Griffin and would have been a cinch on points against such stars as George Gardner, Philadelphia Jack O’Brien, Jim Corbett, Gene Tunney, Tommy Ryan, Jack Root or Marvin Hart.
    This content is protected


    5—Primo Carnera was the poorest excuse for a heavyweight king the ring ever had.
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    6—That in order of ability, the best fighters Johnson met were James J. Jeffries, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford, Stanley Ketchel, Tommy Burns, George Gardner, Hank Griffin, Jack O’Brien, Joe Jeannette and Joe Choynski.

    This content is protected



    7—That his toughest battle was one not listed in any record book, a 65-round contest with Hank Griffin in 1899 at Bakersfield, California, with Watson Burns as the referee. The bout ended in a knockout with Johnson the winner. According to Jack, Hank collapsed in the sixty-fifth round from the heat and exhaustion as much as from the terrific body punishment he had received. It was the longest battle Johnson ever fought.

    This content is protected
     
    Mendoza, Jul 2, 2018
    Mendoza, Jul 2, 2018
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Primary source required for quote Dempsey saying he couldnt beat Jeffries .There is no mention of it in the 4 books on Dempsey that I have read.
     
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson spoke about this fight in a newspaper article.

    This is the article and it wasn't 1899 it was 1902 and not over 60 odd rounds but15 !Johnson talks about the fight just before he fought Jeffries.

    https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn88085947/1909-12-21/ed-1/seq-12/
     
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
    #7
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  8. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Wow. Johnson's description of his own fight is completely, irreconcilably different in the 1945 interview. Shows the fallibility of the human memory and the importance of taking the late-life reminiscing of old-school fight people with many grains of salt.

    *Unless Fleischer just made up the embellishments himself, for whatever reason.
     
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018
    mrkoolkevin, Jul 2, 2018
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  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Jack Dempsey says this plainly on video when asked to name his best fighters. I have seen it. Others who watch films or interviews probably have seen this too.

    Jack Dempsey, himself said: "Jim Jeffries was a tough gun. If we could have gotten in the ring together, each at our best... I probably would have had my chin knocked off."
     
    Mendoza, Jul 2, 2018
    Mendoza, Jul 2, 2018
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  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Where can we see this? You don't think I would take YOUR word do you!!!!

    BTW This is your statement even if Dempsey said the former it isn't what you stated!
    "Dempsey said he didn't think he could beat Jeffries"


    Just more BS lies from you to boost your hero Jeffries!
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
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  11. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Was Johnson in a bathtub during this "interview"?
     
    FrankinDallas, Jul 2, 2018
    FrankinDallas, Jul 2, 2018
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  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Cue Dubblechin!
     
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
    mcvey, Jul 2, 2018
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  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Jack Johnson was the Dinovelvet of the Joe Louis era.

    He kept picking people to beat Louis, and being proved wrong, to the extent that it almost became comical.
     
    janitor, Jul 2, 2018
    janitor, Jul 2, 2018
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  14. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nah, maybe if he just arrives from a time machine and is thrown off by the changing of tactics over time and doesn't adjust on the spot during the fight. Which I'm not convinced of. I think he would abandon his safety first style once he's losing round after round and go on the attack. These so so fighters you think could win, aren't going to win. If he has some prep time and a training camp for the fight, you better get that elite HW in the mix, cause it's going to take more than a jab to beat Johnson imo
     
    KuRuPT, Jul 2, 2018
    KuRuPT, Jul 2, 2018
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  15. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Accept Max, where he said exactly how and why Louis was going to lose.
     
    KuRuPT, Jul 2, 2018
    KuRuPT, Jul 2, 2018
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