[RING, Dec. 1962] 40 Experts Pick Greatest Heavyweight (Dempsey wins)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Jun 27, 2018.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    40 Experts Pick Jack Dempsey as All Time Great, pp. 6-12 (Dec. 1962)

    Looks like the setup was 40 "experts" (mostly sports journalists) each get one vote. The vote count was:

    1. Jack Dempsey (13)
    2. Joe Louis (10)
    3. Jack Johnson (9)
    4. Gene Tunney (3)
    5. Jim Jeffries (2)
    6. Sam Langford (2)
    7. Rocky Marciano (1)

    Their voters were:

    Dempsey: Elmer Ferguson, Jack Cuddy, Ned Brown, Frank Graham, Dink Carroll, Sam Cohen, Harry Grayson, Jersey Jones (The Ring), Jack Koford, Dan Walton, Max Case, Hugh Bradley, Al Buck

    Louis: Dan Parker, Nat Loubet (The Ring), Murray Rose, Lew Eskin (The Ring), Dan Daniel, Johnny McDonald, George Whiting, Ted Carroll (The Ring), Ray Grody, Al DelGreco

    Johnson: Nat Fleischer (The Ring), Willie Ratner, Dick Cullum, George A. Barton, Dick Young, Anthony Marenghi, Harry Keck, Arthur Daley, Johnny Sharpe

    Tunney: Warren Brown, Chris Dundee, Jack Fried

    Langford: Bill McCormack, Charley Rose

    Jeffries: Willie Ritchie, Sam Taub

    Marciano: Lloyd Larson
     
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  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Imagine voting Tunney the greatest heavyweight of all time. How crazy do you need to be?
     
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  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Warren Brown (Chicago American): "I think that Gene Tunney was the greatest heavyweight of all time because he twice defeated Jack Dempsey--no other heavyweight was ever required to prove himself like Tunney did."

    Chris Dundee ("Outstanding Promoter"): I think that Gene Tunney was the greatest heavyweight of all time because he was a good boxer--Also a good puncher--look at his record. Very few people know that he only lost one bout to the great Harry Greb and then came back to beat Greb. He was misfortunate in following the great Jack Depmsey--Like Floud Patterson followed the colorful Marciano. Tunney did not have the personality of Dempsey--and Patterson dod not have the punch of Marciano."

    Jack Fried (Philadelphia Bulletin): I think Gene Tunney was the greatest heavyweight of all time because he combined boxing excellence, hitting power, a keen mind, devotion to physical condition to make himself a master over his field--to a great degree than any heavyweight champion of my time, which goes back to Jess Willard."
     
  4. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Interestingly, one of the Johnson voters, Anthony Marenghi (Newark Star-Ledger) explained that he had never seen Johnson fight but felt compelled to defer to the authorities of his era (including Fleischer).

    Another, George A. Barton (Sports Editor Emeritus at the Minneapolis Tribune) argued that Johnson was better than his record indicated because "Johnson--like many other topnotch Negro boxers of his time, among them Sam Langford, Joe Gans, the original Joe Walcott, welterweight champion; George Dixon, Joe Jeannette, Sam McVey, Jack Blackburn, Harry Wills and Bobby Dobbs, were compelled to make deals with white opponents in order to obtain matches and therefore eat regularly. They likewise had to make deals among themselves."
     
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Imagine voting 5'7" 155-pound Sam Langford the greatest heavyweight all time.

    It's like voting James Toney #1.
     
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  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Imagine voting Jack Dempsey the greatest heavyweight of all time with that paper thin resume... and having had Joe Louis fresh in memory!
     
  7. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When Jack Johnson was champ he used to go on tours speaking and giving exhibitions. Often he'd invite local press to his room to watch him prepare for the evening before he went to the venues. They'd actually watch him take a bath and get dressed, so they could all "marvel" at his nude build, watch him get dressed in the finest clothes and ask him questions. A young Nat Fleischer was one of those reporters.

    Sometimes I think a young Nat got an 'eyeful' of Johnson and the little poof just fell in love. Because I don't know how you watch guys like Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, etc. and still insist Jack Johnson was the best ever unless you just have a crush on him.

    Stylewise, he certainly wasn't. Johnson was a guy who clinched for 99 percent of every round, and then threw uppercuts on the inside while he was holding. Nearly all of the later heavyweights wouldn't done a number on him.
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Dec. 1962 being the key. And the birthdays of the people voting were what? Were they watching boxing from 1895 - 1962?

    This poll almost comes out with who has the most films to see, just flip Dempsey vs Louis and cast Marciano out as the " modern " guy in 1962.

    1. Jack Dempsey (13)
    2. Joe Louis (10)
    3. Jack Johnson (9)
    4. Gene Tunney (3)
    5. Jim Jeffries (2)
    6. Sam Langford (2)
    7. Rocky Marciano (1)

    Dempsey was very popular in his time. A good ambassador to the sport, who liked people.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    You nailed this. 100% accurate.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    He was at least probably still top three then.
     
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Johnson was legitimately the #2 or #3 back then.
     
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  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This is rather distasteful which ,considering its poster is surprising.
    I've read just about every book out there on Johnson and never come across any such reference.

    Can you give a primary source that shows Johnson ever invited the press round to watch him bathe and dress? Or is it just a private fantasy of yours?


    I've nothing against homosexuals at all and I'm aware some folks are bisexual ,but we do know Fleischer was married and had children.


    CREEPY!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: it's "100% accurate" that Fleischer ranked Johnson #1 because he wanted to **** him?

    You sure?
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Primary source to prove it??????
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol: thread entirely sums up ESB Classic in microcosm like bang on.
     
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