[RING, June 1962] What Happened to Body Punching? By Paul Berlenbach

mcvey · Jun 25, 2018

Unforgiven said: ↑

As far as body punching, Berlenbach was probably correct to some extent.
And it's not difficult to figure out why.

In Berlenbach's day most top fighters were fighting very often. AND they were wearing small 5 ounce gloves.
Therfore hands were vulnerable... and the worst hand injuries often occur due to punching the other guy in the skull over and over.
Therefore learning to destroy guys with accurate or sustained attacks to liver, solar plexus and abdomen was very highly valued.
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Hours spent punching the heavy bag wouldn't do much for those hands either!They ****ed up Ali's

mcvey · Jun 25, 2018

mrkoolkevin said: ↑

Oldtimer gripes about the diminished skills, patience, and dedication of more recent fighters... Some interesting quotes though. Pardon any typos.

What Happened to Body Punching? By Paul Berlenbach (as told to Lew Eskin) (pp. 30-31, 48)

… “You can’t drive a spike with a tack hammer. It takes the right tools and the correct leverage to send a heavy spike through a solid plank of wood. In the same way it takes the proper use of the back muscles to get the needed force into body blows to do real damage.

“Today this is a lost art among the fighters. That is a question that has often been asked of me and one that I have asked myself many times watching the inept body attacks used by the present day ringmen.”

“For one thing,” said Paul, “the fighter today does not spend as much time as he should in the gym learning his trade. He does not spend hours pounding away at the big sand bag, as we oldtimers used to do. It is my belief hat it is on the sand bag that a fighter learns how to properly deliver his blows. According to Berlenbach, the present day fighter works one or two rounds on the big bag and lets it go at that, whereas when he fought the man spent hours pounding away at the sand bag.

“Practice makes perfect,” says Paul, “but today’s boxer doesn’t get enough practice. In the old days, few fighters reached the main bout class until they had three or four years experience as a preliminary boy, but today most main bout boxers have had less than twenty fights. In my day that was less than a year’s activity.

“True, I reached the top quickly. Sometimes I think in looking back, too quickly. I had a reputation from my days as an amateur wrestler and boxer and in my eleventh fight, I was matched with Jack Delaney in the first of our four fights. That was the only bout I lost before winning the title from Mike McTigue.

“As I said I reached the top quickly, I scored twenty-three knockouts in my first twenty-eight fights. Most of them with body punches either finishing off my opponents, or setting them up for the finisher.

You might say that my career was similar to that of today’s fighter in the short time it took me to reach the top. This is true—yet untrue.

“I spent long hours in the gym and had many, many amateur fights before turning pro. In watching todays’ fighters in action, I often notice that they have the wrong stance to be effective with their body blows.

“They stand squarely in front of their opponent,” he said “and when they punch to the body, it is with quick flurries of blows. True they land and are thrown much faster than I and other oldtimers used to throw our blows. But think, when was the last time you saw a man, either knocked down or out with a punch to the body?

Today’s fighters are arm punchers,” he declares. Paul says they swing with their arms, and do not get the proper leverage needed to deliver a real powerful punch. Not only with body punching is this true, he pounded out. That is why there are so few one punch knockouts . His opinion is that most of today’s kayos come after a flurry of punches. ”I was taught never to stand full face with an opponent,” he continued. “One should stand at an angle so that he can get full leverage behind his punches as I did. I punched with my whole body behind my blows. Most of the fighters of my time, and before, did the same.

“I have heard the story that today’s fighters eat better and are better conditioned. That is why they take body punches better. That is a lot of bunk. The old timers all did heavy labor even as kids. We might have been smaller but we were a lot tougher than the boxers of today.”

In order to get power in body punches, Berlenbach says one has to dig in, not only with his feet, but with arms and body, Today’s approach he declares different. The fighters train different. They do not learn proper procedure. Paul went on:

“Watching fights and fighters since I retired thirty-odd years ago, I have seen few real good body punchers and of those, most have been either southpaws or converted southpaws, who made good use of the left hooks.

“While Rocky Marciano did a lot of damage with his body blows, he was more of a mauler. He used strength, not sharp power to wear his man down. The same was true of Henry Armstrong, and of the present men, Bobo Olson, Gene Fullmer, Tony DeMarco, and Carmen Basilio who could inflict damage with body blows. But they were left hookers.”

Ray Robinson, a truly great fighter, also was a punishing body puncher, but Ray rarely relied on this type of attack, said Paul.

“Back before my time there were many great body punchers—Ad Wolgast, Kid McCoy, Battling Nelson, Bob Fitzsimmons, with his “solar-plexus punch”, “Nonpariel” Jack Dempsey, Jim Jeffries, Stanley Ketchel—all were capable of knocking out their foes with a smash to the body.”

Today’s boxers are faster afoot and with their hands, like Floyd Patterson, he pounded out. He thinks they have sacrified power for speed, the reverse of baseball, where the hit and run has been replaced by the home run.

“Many times over the years, I have showed youngsters my ideas on body punching,” Paul continued. They would listen then try out what I had shown them on the heavy bag. By they quickly tired, when they saw the long hours of practice that was necessary to master the art.

“When I was a fighter we did not tire of gym work. There was little to do in the evening—no radio or television, no cars to drive around like today. So we enjoyed staying in the gym, listening to the takes of the oldtimers and learning our trade.”

It is his opinion that modern fighters have too many distractions. They rush into to the gym, rush through their workouts and rush out again.

“Like the people I meet on the street, rush, rush, rush. No time to learn, too big a hurry to reach the top. Like I said before, I too was rushed, and I know if I had taken me longer to reach my goal, say another year or two, with about twenty more fights under my belt, I might have stayed on the throne longer than I did. I think this rush is one reason why the reign of the champions is becoming shorter and shorter with each passing year, continued the former title holder.

“Long, long before I laced on my first pair of boxing gloves, Sam Langford was quoted as having said “Kill the Body and the Head Dies” he continued.

“Old Sam knew what he was taking about. When you knock a man down with a head punch, he may be hurt, but he still has his strength. He is dangerous. Knock him down with a body blow and you sap the strength out of him.

“That was a rule of my day. Punch to the body. Today they still aim at the body but miss their marks. They throw plenty of body blows but the punches lack steam. The art of infighting is also being lost along with the art of body punching.

“Maybe this is progress. Maybe I am getting to the age where I long for the Good Old Days. But I can’t see it that way. To me body punching was a true form of art in the pugilistic trade.
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I wonder if the current vogue of over- high protectors and trunks nearly up to nipple height might have something to do with it?Every time we see the ref give his instructions he points to a line lower than the waistband of the boxers shorts and says," I'm calling this good ".The foul line is supposed to be an imaginary line drawn across the hips,now they have their shorts halfway up to their chest!

FrankinDallas · Jun 25, 2018

mcvey said: ↑

I wonder if the current vogue of over- high protectors and trunks nearly up to nipple height might have something to do with it?Every time we see the ref give his instructions he points to a line lower than the waistband of the boxers shorts and says," I'm calling this good ".The foul line is supposed to be an imaginary line drawn across the hips,now they have their shorts halfway up to their chest!
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Take a look at how high DLH's kidney/liver guard is in his fight vs Fernando Vargas. It was impossible for Vargas to land an effective body shot.

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Sting like a bean · Jun 25, 2018

Seamus said: ↑

Berlenbach deserves much respect.

Firstly, he was shredded. And that is muy importante.

Secondly, he made the US Olypmic wrestling team. Can you imagine what an MMA guy he would have made?

And remember, dude was shredded. Nothing trumps that.
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I'm having a hard time seeing who you're satirizing here. Is there anyone at all who would have any difficulty compiling a list of "unshredded" fighters like Chavez or Witherspoon?

Sting like a bean · Jun 25, 2018

Pat M said: ↑

That guy was like a lot of old timers, everything was better when he was young. In 30 years, today's boxers will be telling anyone who will listen how much tougher they were in 2018 and how much harder they trained, and the reality will be that the boxers and athletes will still be getting better...

Body punching is still around. I see plenty of fighters getting hurt from liver shots and spleen shots too. I saw a guy dropped multiple times by body shots on Friday, don't know why anybody would think that fighters don't go to the body anymore. Maybe boxers today are more aware of the damage from body shots, the guy who was dropped on Friday said he'd "just as soon get hit in the nuts as take a liver shot." Getting hit to the body will convince anybody that going to the body is a big part of boxing.
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The inverse of this bias is far more common, and far less often acknowledged.

mrkoolkevin · Jun 25, 2018

Sting like a bean said: ↑

The inverse of this bias is far more common, and far less often acknowledged.
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Not among old timers, it isn't.

Sting like a bean · Jun 25, 2018

mrkoolkevin said: ↑

Not among old timers, it isn't.
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Old timers are a subset of the broader population, and I'm not even convinced it's more common among them.

mrkoolkevin · Jun 25, 2018

Sting like a bean said: ↑

Old timers are a subset of the broader population, and I'm not even convinced it's more common among them.
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Maybe there's some silent majority of old-timers out there but the past-was-better bias certainly seems to be far more common among the ones who offer their opinions about the fight game. Do you question that? Have you come across any quotes from older fighters and trainers praising improvements they've seen over time? If so, please do pass them along!

mrkoolkevin · Jun 25, 2018

Sting like a bean said: ↑

The inverse of this bias is far more common, and far less often acknowledged.
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BTW, I'm not at all convinced that the inverse of this bias is far more common--at least not among actual fight people. Have you seen many quotes from fighters badmouthing their predecessors (other than the typical Holmes-Marciano; Wilder-Tyson bluster)? If so, please do pass them along!

Seamus · Jun 25, 2018

mcvey said: ↑

I wonder if the current vogue of over- high protectors and trunks nearly up to nipple height might have something to do with it?Every time we see the ref give his instructions he points to a line lower than the waistband of the boxers shorts and says," I'm calling this good ".The foul line is supposed to be an imaginary line drawn across the hips,now they have their shorts halfway up to their chest!
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A certain Brit and one of my all time faves was unfortunately guilty of this. Sorry, Lenny. Sometimes his belt line was higher than that of the great Fred Mertz.

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Sting like a bean · Jun 25, 2018

Seamus said: ↑

A certain Brit and one of my all time faves was unfortunately guilty of this. Sorry, Lenny. Sometimes his belt line was higher than that of the great Fred Mertz.

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Fred was a 1919 Golden Gloves champ.

Sting like a bean · Jun 25, 2018

mrkoolkevin said: ↑

Maybe there's some silent majority of old-timers out there but the past-was-better bias certainly seems to be far more common among the ones who offer their opinions about the fight game. Do you question that? Have you come across any quotes from older fighters and trainers praising improvements they've seen over time? If so, please do pass them along!
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I guess we're at an impasse, because I simply don't share that perception and there's no way to resolve it empirically.

mrkoolkevin · Jun 25, 2018

Sting like a bean said: ↑

I guess we're at an impasse, because I simply don't share that perception and there's no way to resolve it empirically.
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You don't share the perception that the old-timers who offer their opinions on the fight game disproportionately glorify pats fighters while denigrating present fighters? What logical basis do you have for perceiving anything else? Is this just ideology/intuition, or have you actually seen any quotes or other evidence to the contrary?

Sting like a bean · Jun 25, 2018

mrkoolkevin said: ↑

You don't share the perception that the old-timers who offer their opinions on the fight game disproportionately glorify pats fighters while denigrating present fighters? What logical basis do you have for perceiving anything else? Is this just ideology/intuition, or have you actually seen any quotes or other evidence to the contrary?
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Logic is primarily a tool to ensure that reasoning is internally consistent, and isn't much use in pattern recognition. I can give you individual examples very, very easily, but that just raises the question of when you're satisfied that a pattern broad has been established. You can rightly deny that any such pattern has been demonstrated even if I give you ten examples, so discussions like this tend to drag on...

mrkoolkevin · Jun 25, 2018

Sting like a bean said: ↑

I can give you individual examples very, very easily, but that just raises the question of when you're satisfied that a pattern broad has been established. You can rightly deny that any such pattern has been demonstrated even if I give you ten examples, so discussions like this tend to drag on...
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Great! I would greatly appreciate all of the individual examples that you can give me very, very easily, thanks!!

PS: I don't expect you to demonstrate any pattern whatsoever--I'm just trying to understand the basis for your perception.

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[RING, June 1962] What Happened to Body Punching? By Paul Berlenbach

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[RING, June 1962] What Happened to Body Punching? By Paul Berlenbach

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