Ring Magazine's #1/Champion's square off: 1939 v 1989

For real? And you watched the film?


His biggest defensive asset is his ability to recognise range. He recognised Louis's circle of effectiveness and neutralised it. Nobody else Louis fought did this successfully. It's a unique achievment of judgment, generalship and timing in defence.

1:07 Parrying and jab counter.

1:14 Parrying and distance control

1:58: Slipping.

3:09 Smothering

4:03 Blocking and distance.

5:37 Riding.



Hard to think of a fight where the full range of defensive attributes are more fully illustrated, in fact.

And Jones did hold his hands low. Same question for both. So what? Conn uses his speed and defence and experience to neutralise puncehs and coutner. Jones uses his speed to slip punches and counter. Consider what advantages technical shortcomings bring before pointing them out as somehow definitive.

Brilliant. Conn only did so well because Louis was having an off day.

You are picking Roy Jones to beat 1941 Louis? 7-0 Louis? Louis three years after one of his peak performaces, seven months shy of another on of his peak performances? Slap bang in the middle of his prime Louis?

I think that's the single most embarrassing thing i've ever read on this forum.

Who cares if he's 28? Why do you think that that means anything? He could be 30, he hadn't fought a twelve rounder. He was totally green.

What, with the footage so hard to come by? On YouTube and that?

I don't know.

They all had better chins though :yep

Either way, your original claim that these guys weren't good enough to test him is embarrassing. Every one of these guys has a better resume than your hero.

You didn't say anything about beathing him. Your direct quote:

If that's a fact, Conn is much, much, much better than I think he is. MAYBE you're right, but i thin it's more likely that you just don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, Burley wanted to face him, but Conn stepped up to HW to pursue Joe Louis, the coward.

I said that you were being ridiculous in painting this as "the bottom line".

 

By "defensive footwork" you mean slipping, parrying, controlling distance, countering, parrying, smothering, riding? How extraordinary.

I disagree, feel free to demonstrate.

I think Jones's opportunites to counter will be few and far between on account of Conn's incredible control of distance. I also think his accuracy and vastly, vastly superior infighting mean he should be favoured.

Yes, Conn made Louis look bad. Yes, Louis was at his ABSOLUTE peak. Yes, picking Jones to beat Louis based upon Conn's neutralisation of him given how different they are is as embarrassing as it gets.

Yeah, he's ****ing rubbish, really.

He's also less durable, chinny, ducked or "failed to fight" the best punchers of his generation and couldn't even stop some of the average fighters he actually met. This means he has to go the distance with Louis without getting hit. Won't happen. Louis by knockout 10/10.

Who had he gon 12 rounds with prior to meeting Jones?

You also believe Jones would beat Louis and that Harry Greb's resume is compromise because some of his opponents "might have bene injured". Defence rests.

Yeah, couldn't crack an egg, but he knocked out the 200lb O'Dowd, the 190lb Knox, the 195lb Barlund, the 200lbs Hasset etc etc etc.

Best of all, he stopped the 175 Pastor a fighter ONLY ever stopped by Conn and Louis. He was iron chinned. Conn dropped him twice and stopped him with a body-shot.

What box-rec jocks like you persistantly fail to recognise is that Conn developed as a puncher. It's highly unlikely that Jones wills top Conn, but Conn might stop Jones. Certainly, he developed into a better puncher than Glenn Johnson who knocked Roy unconscious.

Ffs. Ok. Let's agree.

Conn was SO good, that the fighters on his incredible resume weren't good enough to expose him. Jones has no chance.

Yeah. But I don't thin Jones is THAT much better than some of the guys Conn beat.

I didn't say they fought the best around, just that they beat better men than JOnes :good

That's not actually true for all of them, just most of them.

Well at least you've managed to get something right.

 

That's entirely my fault, I was looking at various years for the match-up and confused '99 with '89.

 

Hell no. You better vote for Liston in my poll thread.

If his slipping doesn't impress you, look again.

...you're kidding?

"Needing" to hold and holding are different things altogether. Again, you neglect to mention the advantages Conn enjoys by clinching. He does very well offensively at these times.

10 times faster, huh? You sure?

And you're flat out wrong. The way you talk about boxing (especially when you are talking about Jones, but we've also seen you make the same msitake about Conn tonight) is like the faster man can get in and out without getting hit. It doesn't work that way. Conn controls range with small moves. He creates over-reaching, space, countering opportunity with these small moves. He's not in a race!! How do you think slower opponents EVER beat faster fighters? Controlling distance is NOT about having fast feet. That's a total fallacy and can't be defended in any way. Louis was excellent at conrolling range. McCallum too. Liston absolutley excelled at it. The much faster footed Tyson sometimes struggled. You're way off with this. Look again.

He has ten times better chin?

He throws very short punches that are almost entirely unsold. Find me footage of Louis selling shots whilst boxing, not finishing. SELLING the shot.

What? Jones was more durable than Conn? Apostolin gave Conn an absolute thrashing. Left him with a face like chopped liver. He took hard punches from Louis. The worst beating Jones took was against Calslappy, who, by your own admission, has no power. Conn is absolutely proven as the more durable fighter. Look again.

By that time, Conn had already had MORE fights than Jones and beaten MANY more great fighters.

Hopkins was green, unquestionably, Toney was horribly weight-drained. Great perfromance though.

What I think: It didn't happen. You've made it up or your trying to count SCHEDULED fights as 12 rounds under the belt and now you've been caught lying. If I'm wrong, tell me:

Who did Hopkins go 12 rounds with prior to meeting Jones?

Greb has nothing to do with this, Hopkins was green.

Pastor was a ranked HW. Conn, the smaller man, did what Jones never could.

Conn KO'd hw's. He knocked out bigger fighters than Jones managed. Jones knocked out a lot of garbage men etc. at the lower weights though.

Well put it this way: the men Conn beat beat better men than Jones beat.

I think the version of Hopkins that Jones beat would lose to most of the top men Conn beat. You don't beat these guys without having even boxed twelve rounds.

I think Toney would beat a few of them.