Ring Magazine's Top 20 Middleweights of All-Time

I dont see why not.

His performance against Hagler was as good or better a performance as Lamotta ever put up, imo, against a better fighter than Lamotta ever fought. Vito went off the boyle after this, and certainly Lamotta is not without his chances, but i see no reason why Vito wouldnt beat LaMotta.

 

No way Vito would beat LaMotta.

 

I am just going to rewatch some film of these two guys. Watching some Hagler v Vito II. Hagler is certainly doing a number and looking good, but Vito is proving a tough fighter and not looking poor (just outclassed) at the moment. Any la Motta fans want to suggest fights to look at which showcase his ability?

 

I don't think there are films extant of the 2 fights where Jake KDed SRR, including the one he won. There is film on youtube of only parts of his winning the belt from Cerdan. But look up Cerdan's record and try to see his fights on tube such as vs Zale.

Jake beat some ATGs!!
Was much more than just a chin.

 

I am very confident that a prime Marcel Cerdan beats Jake Lamotta.

Sugar Ray Robinson was a Welterweight when he lost to LaMotta.

Looking briefly at the film, it is obviously going to be a great fight, no matter what happens. La MOtta fights from a much lower crouch than Vito. Almost similar to Marcianno the way he gets real low and ducks, although i notice that Jake's head seems to be right in the firing line, probably because he is always looking to attack. Which is also why he seems to drop the left much more than Vito and pretty much always uses the low position with the left, although this is because he is looking for the big left hook. The worrying thing i did see with Jake was in the Nardico fight (admittedly he was old by then), but Danny had him out for a long time and instead of holding a tight guard or trying to strike back, Jake was constantly looking for the ropes, with his right hand to try to hold him off. Definitely a very strange habbit to do, although maybe it was a one off and means nothing given his past prime status.

Vito, is actually an interesting fighter. His high guard really surprised me, and he was consistent with it, although perhaps this is because he had trouble keeping the aggressive fighters off him. Vito really seemed to excel at counterpunching, when he was in trouble and was consistent with that high guard, even in the face of solid punchers. One thing that is clear, is that Vito was a real bad bleeder. And you would expect that lamotta would draw blood like many of Vito's opponents. I think it is Jake's best chance.

Clearly this would be a good fight. I stick by Vito as a pick, but will admit, on looking at the tape's that i was probably a little harsh in calling him a warm favourite. But it is definitely a 50 50 fight and i am confident in picking Vito.

 

Antuofermo would be cake for Jake he lacked power and bled as soon as you looked at him.Average middleweights such as Minter kicked his arse. Graziano too ,would be on a loser against Lamotta, something he knew himself and that's why he would never entertain a fight with him.
Jake beats Zale too imo.

 

That is true. LaMotta wasn't a big puncher either.

 

Oh, Boilermaker. You're at it again, I see, with your most inane ramblings yet.

 

I can't take a top 20 middleweight list that seriously that doesn't have Freddie Steele on it, even though middleweight is insanely deep.

 

I think that he had a lot more layers to his game than those who are critical of him are alowing for here.

 

I have come to understand that there have been many American fighters and managers that thought Darcy was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but there has been just as much that is false and wrong with some of the things that happened from the US side, most of it mythical rehashing of unverified nonsense,............. There were many old-time Australian fans that did hate the American Boxing establishment, but I'm not one of them. As for McCoy, as I have read a lot of newspaper reports on McCoy that call him a fake a paper champion......... How on earth does his name appear as champion when the US even today refuses to recognise Darcy's Australian version ( at least Darcy defended hi belt )...... now if there's no US bias, why is McCoy still listed as "the champion" ????,.................. nearly a hundred years later, when all of us recognise that Darcy was by far the greater fighter ???.... and there is this insistence that Gibbons was Darcy's superior (he only wanted a 10 ND bout),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, And why did Tunney refer to Darcy as a "NonPariel" ????????....... were Gene and Dempsey and Kearns dummies to praise Darcy to the hilt ???....... they were 3 Americans who did right by Darcy.....no I'm not a troll, I did not want to offend anybody, but we Australians have been asking these questions for almost a century.

 

Really good effort, I'm sure I could find one fighter not named, but I'm tired so I'll pass. We are at least half guessing about who beats who on any list and I've never ever seen a list that was infallible. because it's an impossible task, basically I gave up trying and now I feel a lot better............................. IMO.

 

I'm not a big fan of his, but I feel Tricky Nicky might as well replace Giardello. :conf

 

Take ROBINSON, GREB, KETCHEL, for top three and the rest can be placed wherever. Mickey Walker and Emile Griffith should be all time greats due to their welterweight performnces, but I would not rate either in the top ten of the middleweight division. My one concern is why isn't FREDDY STEELE on the list of top twenty. Of course, he was from the Pacific Northwest, so maybe he is overlooked by those "think they are smart and have all the right answers"
folks in the Northeast.
The problem with any list, is many persons voting do not have a clue about boxing history. Of course, if this was The RING magazine list based on the old views, then the old timers would receive more consideration. And, in real live middleweight bout, there are good reasons to believe either GREB or KETCHEL would smash all the other middleweights into oblivion including Sugar Ray Robinson who was beat by Randy Turpin, Carmen Basilio, Gene Fullmer and others. The FULLMER that destroyed BENNY PARET, would be
deadly against any boxer that did not have excellent movement and fast hands. And, Fullmer against a Jake LaMotta would be pure pain and agony for both of them if both were at their very best. If one was off, then it would be game over.:hi:when your hot your hot:bbb:deal

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