Ring P4P Top 10 1922-2012.

Hadn't angott retired due to hand injuries before returning and beating pep?

I've always wondered whether it was a bogus retirement because he seemed to continually beat top rated guys despite retiring his claim to the championship.

Pep is a phenom and is clearly above ray for me. I wouldn't necessarily agree with stone's thinking because I don't put much stock on beating hundred or so journeymen types but the reason pep rates so high is that he dominated his era and has a top class resume when people look into it. Plus defeating a prime saddler is one of the few occasions when the number 1 in a divisions history defeats the number 2.

 

There was an interesting discussion about Angott-Pep fight - some interesting critical posts and reports by Senya:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144840&highlight=angott

 

i rate his win over saddler as the best win of all time for this and the stylistic disadvantages he suffered. still i think there is an argument that his record is padded. like you said, he has a great resume but the numbers of wins at times might cloud, for better or worse, the quality of his wins.

 

The official story behind Angott's first retirement in '42 was bad hands. The word on the street was that he either chose to retire to shake off mobsters or he was forced to retire by them because he wasn't playing ball.

PS/ About the lengthy records. Take a look at Cerdan's and compare it to Pep's. I got a problem with Cerdan's. But anyone who has a problem with Pep's simply doesn't recognize the names. Fighting top ten guys 51 times is better than Ray, Floyd, and Pernell.

Every fighter fights lesser threats during their career -today it's how you learn, yesterday it was how you learned AND how you kept sharp. It was also how you rested. Imagine that --Golden Era champions rested by fighting.

Also, journeymen were defined differently back then, as were clubfighters. Those terms weren't slurs.

 

This. I think it's wrong to assume Pep's lofty reputation is due to sheer number of bouts as well, he had a very solid ring record. Plus his ability and you're looking no lower than 15.

I personally think you're splitting hairs genuinely ranking 1-5 or 6-15 or 16-30 over one another. I just go for what I like some days, anyone good enough to be considered a fighter of that magnitude should be brilliant in their own right and justifiably there as much as anyone else.

 

Was there any recognition of him being a champion once he returned? I struggled with placing this particular timeframe in my premiere fighter series.

Yeah I guess with pea it demonstrates exceptional consistency but that's about as high praise as i'd give his prime ring record. His resume is stacked anyway so I guess what i'm trying to say is his quantity of wins masks his quality of wins.

I didn't intend it as a slur by any means and even today a club fighter is an essential cog in the boxing machine.

 

Very good link this, thank you.

It's hard imagining someone who's reportedly as perfect as pea losing to someone as rugged and physical as angott.

I haven't seen the fight myself but all the reports seen unanimous on sammy winning the first 5 rounds. Is slow starting something pea suffered from?

The last 5 rounds seem much close with pea winning atleast 3. The other 2 seemingly being either angotts or even.

It seems like some suspect that over a fifteen round limit pea would certainly have eeked out a decision.

 

No problem, Luf.

 

Yes, Angott was considered "still the champ" by some in the press. It just confuses things, though. When you retire, you give up your claim; otherwise, you'd have alot of geezers running around claiming to be "still the champ."

 

I agree, which is why I questioned the validity of his retirement.