Ring SERIOUSLY hammers modern boxing in favour of classic this month: Punchers

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Mar 16, 2012.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I've honestly never read such a flat out mauling in the modern press of modern boxing, this is a real kicking. It makes classic boxing's superiority (which I don't entirely agree with) seem like it's an open secret. Some choice quotes.

    "Flat Statement: Fighters don't know how to punch any more."

    Ring then talks through some of the likely "explanations" for this, without really fully justifying the opinion IMO (though there are some choice quotes from top men).

    1.
    "Many of history's great punchers were heavyweights. The heavyweigh division enters the second decade of a dry spell we can forget about seeing another Joe Louis anytime soon."


    2.
    "Fighters jump weight classes more frequently than in the past, and they aren't bringing their punch with them."

    3.
    "Boxing's health hazards have become more publicized, fighters have become more defensive."

    4.
    "Fighters from different parts of the world are coming into prominence, and driving a man's nose into his brain doesn't play as well in Finland as it does in America."

    But...

    "...simply put, the real gunslingers of boxing - the real single-shot knockout punchers - are vanishing more quickly than the Bengal tiger."


    So the ring talks this out with Joe Goosen, Emanuel Steward and Harold Knight. Here are some of their opinions on why punchers have evaporated.


    Goosen:
    "The de-evolution of punching can be traced to the revamped amateur system, where 10 pitter-pat punches are woth more than a KD...they don't turn their knuckles. There is a spin technique to punching. They don't know how to put the blade of the axe to work. They don't know how to read the body language of the opponent, to know when he might be ready to go. There is less of a problem with fighters from Mexico, because they turn pro early.

    The safety first mindset has turned amateur boxing sterile."

    This is pretty hellish stuff and whilst i've often remarked upon the distance now between the am and pro codes, this is way further than i've ever gone. Thoughts?


    Emanuel Steward:
    "You can't make a fist in some of the new foam gloves...and the pad drills...I introduced the pads. But when my guys hit the pads my entire body would shudder...now the fighter goes pop-pop-pop. They put on a show, but they aren't learning to hit with full power...[a fighter] will see some unknown trainer who can't tape hands...but they'll see him working the pads with some going pop-pop-pop and they'll say, "I want him as my trainer." It's like they're hypnotised. The trainer is meeting the punch halfway...they're slapping eachother."

    This really, really rings bells in terms of the observation I think.


    Goosen:
    "Young amateurs, and mos of the pros now, are using big boxing gloves to hit the heavy bags. Their hands are wrapped in double wraps, with an inch and a half of padding on the knuckles. They they go into the fight with miniscule amounts of tape and 8 ounce gloves.

    "How hard is the steel going to be if it isn't tempered?"


    Both Goosen and Steward agree that punchers are not made but taught, and that this teaching is boiling down. Goosen names Nunn who he claims "was a slapper; i taught him how to knock people out with one punch. Steward claims no less than Tommy: "I showed him how to shift his weight and lock his wrist. He was a learned puncher, not natural.


    Knight:
    "It comes down to them not being taught the basics. Paul Williams should be a big puncher. But he isn't utilizing all of his natural gifts. Amir Khan does some things right, but I don't think of him as a complete fighter. We give fighters today to much credit for doing to little. Very few fighters today are complete fighters...they don't fight often enough, they aren't around older fighters. How can they learn new tricks...they're slow to shake off their amateur habits. Many won't adapt to the pro style.


    Bad training.
    Bad amateur background.
    Fighting to infrequently.
    Fear of risk.
    Poor technique.

    This is a pretty ****ing devastating list, and a lot of it is coming not just from the most respected Boxing journal in the world, but from three of the world's most respected trainers. Pretty harsh stuff.


    "When asked to name a few of the quality punchers working today, Steward took a long pause. He mumbled Pacquiao's name, said something about Pacquiao's using angles. Then he sighed. "You got me. I can't think of one. It's a bad generation."
     
  2. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    They're spot on, imo (The trainers). Perhaps a little overzealous but i agree with pretty much everything they've said. The regression is unreal.
     
  3. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Btw, do you mind if i put this in the 'technical thread' on the Brit forum?
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Carry on old bean, that's a lovely thread.
     
  5. Vantage_West

    Vantage_West ヒップホップ·プロデューサー Full Member

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    1. there are less punchers because of bad technique
    2. there are more fighters getting knocked out due to bad technique

    great logic
     
  6. slip&counter

    slip&counter Gimme some X's and O's Full Member

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    Cheers. :thumbsup
     
  7. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    "Fighters from different parts of the world are coming into prominence, and driving a man's nose into his brain doesn't play as well in Finland as it does in America."

    :rofl:rofl

    You couldn't make it up
     
  8. Vantage_West

    Vantage_West ヒップホップ·プロデューサー Full Member

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    of course. sort of agree with the fighters nowadays are not taught to fight but taught all the moves with little working knowledge of why you do that. so these punches are almost gimmicks of fighters of yesteryear.

    but you cant forget that fighters of today have more defensive advantages and more cautious commissions. so less one shots because you cant get them stunned enough before you crumple them. and with the ref there not to reinforce the rules but to protect the fighter a ko is pretty dangerous
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Ring doesn't know how to write articles anymore and is clearly trying to appeal to the fetish market of Classicists.
     
  10. Vantage_West

    Vantage_West ヒップホップ·プロデューサー Full Member

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    anyone feel like the bible of boxing needs a new tesitment





    This content is protected
     
  11. DonBoxer

    DonBoxer The Lion! Full Member

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    I think Steward talks a lot of truth. Hearns is up there with the greatest P4P punchers of all time, as an armature he barley had a KO.
     
  12. Vantage_West

    Vantage_West ヒップホップ·プロデューサー Full Member

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    yeah but watch him. he didnt trade he just threw punches. then settled down when he got older....like absolutely every amateur of the last 30 years.
     
  13. Jack

    Jack Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think the point about the gloves is an interesting one. There does seem to be a correlation between injuries or deaths and glove sizes, indicating that the size of the glove makes a significant difference. However, when you have physically strong fighters throwing shots with all their power from their feet to the fist, how much difference can an extra could of ounces of foam really add? Would anyone argue that Tyson, Hearns, Robinson etc., wouldn't have been such big punchers if they had an extra ounce or two in their gloves?

    I'm really not sure about glove sizes. You hear some fighters saying larger gloves are like "pillows" but then I can't imagine someone like Earnie Shavers would be any less of a vicious puncher if he had to wear 12oz gloves.

    There was a scientific test which measured MMA 5oz to heavyweight boxing 12oz ones though. The MMA fighter hit harder than the boxer but when both threw a bare knuckle punch, the power decreased at the same amount which indicates that the glove size doesn't have much, if any, bearing on how much power there is.
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Modern boxing sucks.
     
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I was surprised at what he said about tommy.

    I was reading the article this morning with a shade of cynicism but the sister article of the top ten punchers today kinda brought home the truth.

    Donaire is a fair shout because he has two one punch finishes in his career against elite opponents. But maidana? He's one the worst punching "punchers" today. Who's he ever stopped? Victor ortiz due to a mental breakdown and that's it.

    Martinez has come in to his own lately but that **** about him being matched tough is bs. He just wasn't very good initially despite having a very padded record.

    Kirkland and wlad were obvious choices.

    But looking through the list, it's clear how poor the knockout side of modern boxing is. You can't blame it on an increase in technique because only a handful are elite level boxers not reliant on power (floyd, hopkins, marquez, ward etc) but the aggressive boxers today just aren't producing the goods in a top to bottom sense. Look at pac's recent fights, slowing down against mosley and margo two of the most shot boxers today, then failing to overwhelm a man considered physically inferior by this point (i had it a draw).

    I wonder if it's because rounds have been shortened so fighters are less tired and less open to being stopped?