Ring's top 10 British HW's, all time - your thoughts?

Thanks.

I'm probably getting a little too involved but I find it baffling that so many postors on here who spend hours explaining how historical fighters are too 'unproven' to favour in h2h fights suddenly turn around and change the standards for David Haye.

.... because they like the way he glistens 'on film' no doubt.

 

Quite on the mark ! Bugner,when up for it,would beat Haye quite handily on points.

 

Which fighter have I said is unproven?

Again there's no right or wrong here. For instance would it have been wrong to favour tyson over douglas? Or would it have been wrong to predict an upset?

Unless you come up with a time machine and make these fights happen, you pretty much just have to agree to disagree.

Fyi it was bolt who won btw. Second fastest time in history I think they said.

 

Not directed at you in particular.
Just generally, the better postors here understand that h2h fantasy fight predictions need to at least have some sort of reference point ie. they need to be grounded in actual proven ability.

When it comes to "h2h lists" it's even more necessary to base it on actual proven ability, because it's how the fighters would do 'against the whole field'.

I don't know where you're coming from.
Do you put Douglas above Tyson on an all-time h2h list ?
Does anyone ?

Yeah.

 

He'd lose, although be competitive with Louis and Frazier. He 's similar in ways to Schmelling/Walcott with his counter punching and big right so that wouldn't be an easy match up for Louis. I could see him knocking Frazier down early but being stopped late

 

Well the reference point is what film you can get your hands on.

And in this particular field I pick haye over them all bar lewis.

No but if asked to pick a winner prime-prime i'd pick douglas over tyson no doubt.

 

Many thought he won the Valuev rematch, the Valuev and Chageav fights were all close

 

Which only adds to how discredited Valuev had become by the time Haye got round to fighting him.

 

Did you follow his career all the way from the am's?

 

BS if you did watch it you'd be pretty alone in having it to Sprott, everyone had it to Williams

Valuev and Ruiz aren't greats but were 2 of the best contenders of the last 10 years, Valuev maybe slightly past prime, Ruiz a little past his best too. Both had been fighting decent comp coming in and Ruiz hadn't been dominated like that since the Jones fight

Chisora was prime and had just taken 4 rounds off Vitali and beaten Helenius, this isn't far off Farr's achievements in itself

Mormeck was the lineal cruser champion, it's different times and beating and unifying a division is a big achievement

So you're agreed Haye is quicker and hits harder. As for defence neither Farr or Bugner, were that hard to hit, Haye is hard to hit when countering/pot shotting, against great jabbers he can be hit clean but most can be.

Again who did Farr and Bugner actually outright beat? Farr has a significantly past prime Baer and the rest are domestic crusers. Budger's best win is Past prime Cooper or shot Ellis or Mac Foster and he couldn't beat Ron Lyle

 

Haye has a quicker jab and maybe a quicker lead right. Louis has the quicker combinations, shorter punches. On the outside Haye is probably quicker, at mid range and inside Louis is quicker

 

fighters ARE, and can, and should be regarded for excellent perfomances against other Great or TOP fighters even in a LOSS!!!

that's one of the thing that pisses me off about forums and blogs, too many people suit themselves...how many fighters ARE mentioned and given such credit when it suits one's post, but then some of these same people won't credit other fighters the same merit(???).

Farr & Bugner ARE better than Haye, and this is seen not only in who they met, but yes even in the same lossing effort against such!!!

 

I can't remember it being bad. But maybe I'm just not interested. Williams was domestic-level only.

They had NOT been fighting decent competition coming in.
Ruiz had Adnan Serin as his only recent opponent.
Valuev had been lucky to beat 46 year old Holyfield, who most people thought would get killed.

Tommy Farr took 5 or 6 rounds from a prime Joe Louis.
Chisora fought a 40-year-old Vitali.
Farr beat Baer, Foord, Neusel, deserved the Braddock decision, and fought the best men out there.

So Baer is "significantly past prime" when Farr beat him, but Ruiz "a little past his prime" when Haye beat him ?
Bugner beat more contenders and fringe contenders than Haye did, and he did better overall when he stepped up.