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RIP Tommy Burns

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by hofguy, Feb 15, 2011.

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Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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The tragic Archie Kemp.

Bobby Sinn, Feb 16, 2011

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Bugger Active Member Full Member

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Sorry to stray a little off topic.

Bugger, Feb 16, 2011

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Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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Bugger said: ↑

Definately Bobby, it still would have been an exciting fight had it come to fruition (earlier rather than later).

This is an article i found a few months ago by Vic Patrick where he elaborates ( and defends i guess) on a comment made by Dawson that Oz boxers are "right hand crazy". Ofcourse he meant no disrespect but was rather imo pointing out a common mentality within Australian boxers, i guess to fight hard and true to prove your worth in the ring.

PATRICK AGREES WITH
DAWSON... Our Boxers Lacking In Ríngecraft

AUSTRALIAN boxers have forgotten the tremendous value of ringcraft.
That's what Freddie Dawson meant last week when he said that the majority of Australian fighters were right hand crazy. Dawson has not missed a trick in summing up what is wrong with Australian boxing.
He is right in everything he says about the Australian method of fighting and training. Definitely Australian fighters are right hand crazy.
All they want to do is to throw the right hand over and end the fight.
They don't seem to get the idea that before a fighter can effectively throw the damaging right he has to get his opponent set to receive it. All that takes ring craft. You just can't walk up to a good class fighter and knock him down. Nine times out of ten the fighter that goes in for the "kill" without any premeditated campaign will find himself on the receiving end.
Most of the fighters in Australia seem to miss out on the essentials of the boxing game.The excuse is lack of experience.

When they bump into a boxer who knows how to use his hands well and thoroughly and they get a beating they claim that they "haven't been around." I would say that most of our preliminary boys step into the fight ring with a very scanty knowledge of the basic principles of boxing.
Since I have been refereeing fights I have been astounded how few boxers in Australia know how to get their balance to place punches. People are under the belief that boxers are born.

Certainly good fighters have come into the game with a certain amount of natural ability, but they would have got nowhere without having been taught the basic principles of boxing and a sound method of conditioning.
The natural fighter has a punch, but he must be shown how and when to use it.It's the same in every sport, the beginner always wants to start the wrong way.The art of boxing seemed to have disappeared from the game in Australia when Jack Carroll retired.
Carroll was probably the best boxer Australia had from the time when the great Albert Griffo dazzled the world.Carroll was like a will-o'-the wisp.
The first time I saw him fight he seemed to me to be all arms and legs.
He made use of the ring and threw punches like greased lightning. And he was a hard man to hit.

I was never a boxer. Maybe I wasn't a good example to the young boxer in Australia.I won most of my fights the easiest way the knockout. The quicker the better. But I had studied balance and I knew the right time to rip over the left. I was, of course, a southpaw.
Before I ever thought of entering the fight game I knew how to use the gloves and place a few punches.I used to go along to Ern McQuillan's gymnasium and pay two shillings a week to be shown how to use the gloves.

I suppose the fight game had a fascination for me. I used to read all the fight reports in the newspapers, go to the Stadium when I had enough money to pay my way into the bleachers, and read every book that had anything about fight that I could lay my hands on.

I was naturally a hard puncher. Whenever I got the chance I was in the ring at McQuillan's gymnasium, sparring.
Soon I wanted a real fight. Thought I would go all rights
It came along, and I knocked out Les Shocker in three rounds at Carlton Stadium in a four round preliminary. I won seven fights in a row with knockouts, and knew that I could really punch. But very often in my career I was glad that I had learned the basic principles of boxing and knew how to protect myself, and was able to stop punches from landing.
When I began to meet fighters who knew something about the game I soon found out that a punch to the chin wasn't everything about winning a fight.

They called me one of the greatest punchers Australia had produced.
But by that time I knew that hard punching was a waste of time if it wasn't planned beforehand.
Most of our boys just want to throw punches and see their opponent battered down in double quick-time. What they forget is that while they are walking up throwing punches a good, cool boxer can pick them off and wait for the right time to make his return. Dawson was an object lesson to Australian boxers. There was the ideal boxer fighter. He beat Jack Hassen, Norm Gent, and Jean Mougin all the same way.

He boxed each of them into a position when he could just go ahead and deliver the knockout punch without any fear of it missing out. And what is more, he didn't get hurt doing it.
Dawson showed the benefit of having started at the bottom of the rung by learning the basic principles of boxing and building around it a solid knowledge of ringcraft on his wayup.
In Dawson, young Australian boxers saw the polished boxer fighter with a scheming fighting brain.

Harry Rudolph, manager of Freddie Dawson and Johnny Toth, who is looking after Henry Brimm, places considerable value on roadwork. I didn't do any roadwork because I didn't like it. Roadwork might have done me a lot of good. I don't know. I made up for it with plenty of skipping and shadow sparring. I was able to pace it with anybody I met.

But if trainers like Harry Rudolph and Johnny Toth place so much faith in roadwork, they must know what they are talking about.
I advise young boxers in Australia to accept any advice handed out to them from Rudolph or Toth.
I also agree with Harry Rudolph that the small windbag does a lot to speed up punches. Vital Assets. Condition and speed are the two vital assets of the boxer.

Most of Australian boxers train hard. Some train too hard and leave a lot of it in the gymnasium when they step into the ring for the fight.
Punching the small windbag, skipping, shadow sparring, and fast sparring partners will get a boxer into condition. This method of training will keep him working hard and fast and not prove a heavy drag that will burn up his energy. A lot of Australian boxers spar too hard. They make a gymnasium spar almost a fight. A spar in a gymnasium should be a battle of wits to sharpen the eye and speed up the punches.The fighter receives enough hard punches in the actual fight.

I used to punch the heavy bag until 1 found out it wasn't doing me any good. I switched to a swivel bag suspended from the ceiling of the gymnasium and attached to the floor. The bag weighed about 151b. It was fast and I had to move fast.

I do not agree that Australian boxing is In the doldrums. The topline fighters in each division in Australia are good fighters. But I do agree with Harry Rudolph that there are not enough good fighters in each
division.We want more fighters from America, England, and Europe to give our boys experience. American fighters on the rise can gain world recognition by coming to Australia and earn more money than they can in their own country.
Click to expand...

Bloody brilliant read mate. He's right about the change from Carroll's departure... as terrible as ringside fans said of him... Carroll was the classic hit, slip and drift 4 feet away before the oponent countered, style of fighter. Flicking his stinging jab out from a safe range.. not even looking to throw the right.
I can't think of any fighter that I've seen on tape, before Carroll, doing the same. Richards was GREAT when the walked to him, Palmer seemed there at close quarters, but rolled effectively and used the ring to the full- as seen with Stribling- until worn down in that fight, and Henneberry started to spit the dummy if you were not there to engage... hence he hated Carroll's style of business. Even Dave Sands seemed to back opponents to the ropes before unleashing hell...
Archie Moore, in the brief snippets with him down under, does seem no different to Dawson...

Bobby Sinn, Feb 16, 2011

#33
Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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Bugger said: ↑

Sorry to stray a little off topic.
Click to expand...

**** no.. I read the story over and again.. late response. :good

Bobby Sinn, Feb 16, 2011

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Bugger Active Member Full Member

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Bobby Sinn said: ↑

**** no.. I read the story over and again.. late response. :good
Click to expand...

Not directed at you Bobby, just didnt want to stray too far from the main topic, which is the memory of the great Mr Burns.

Glad you liked the article though, i really enjoyed it myself :good

Bugger, Feb 16, 2011

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Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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Be nice to see another doco done, incorporating all the blokes around today who survived the 1950's onwards. We've lost a good handfull in the last couple of months already. Gus Mercurio, Tommy Burns, Hank Stanley, Francis Roberts and Brian Roberts.

Never nice to see them go.

Bobby Sinn, Feb 16, 2011

#36
JOSEY WALES Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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Bugger said: ↑

Sorry to stray a little off topic.
Click to expand...

Thanks for straying , interesting read . Thanks

JOSEY WALES, Feb 16, 2011

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Rise Above IBHOF elector Full Member

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RIP to a real legend of Australian boxing.

Rise Above, Feb 17, 2011

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Bugger Active Member Full Member

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Was nice to see Tommy mentioned in the papers today

http://www.smh.com.au/national/obituaries/glamour-boy-drew-a-crowd-20110216-1awir.html

Some great photoes in there.

Bobby Sinn said: ↑

Bloody brilliant read mate. He's right about the change from Carroll's departure... as terrible as ringside fans said of him... Carroll was the classic hit, slip and drift 4 feet away before the oponent countered, style of fighter. Flicking his stinging jab out from a safe range.. not even looking to throw the right.
I can't think of any fighter that I've seen on tape, before Carroll, doing the same. Richards was GREAT when the walked to him, Palmer seemed there at close quarters, but rolled effectively and used the ring to the full- as seen with Stribling- until worn down in that fight, and Henneberry started to spit the dummy if you were not there to engage... hence he hated Carroll's style of business. Even Dave Sands seemed to back opponents to the ropes before unleashing hell...
Archie Moore, in the brief snippets with him down under, does seem no different to Dawson...
Click to expand...

Taking a long shot here possibly Mundine Snr??????

Bobby Sinn said: ↑

Be nice to see another doco done, incorporating all the blokes around today who survived the 1950's onwards. We've lost a good handfull in the last couple of months already. Gus Mercurio, Tommy Burns, Hank Stanley, Francis Roberts and Brian Roberts.

Never nice to see them go.
Click to expand...

Definately. :good I wold love to see that.

Bugger, Feb 18, 2011

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Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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A great read again Bugger.... and a fitting tribute written by Tommy's nephew Ron.

Just imagine how MASSIVE the Burns/Patrick fight must have been.

There's NEVER been another like between two locals.

Bobby Sinn, Feb 18, 2011

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Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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Tommy Burns vs Pran Mikus

Tommy's former oponent, Vic Patrick, as referee.

Bobby Sinn, Feb 18, 2011

#41

Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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Taking a long shot here possibly Mundine Snr??????[/quote]

Hell yes, but I was thinking about the fighters through to the late 40's

:good

Bobby Sinn, Feb 18, 2011

#42
Bugger Active Member Full Member

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Bobby Sinn said: ↑

A great read again Bugger.... and a fitting tribute written by Tommy's nephew Ron.

Just imagine how MASSIVE the Burns/Patrick fight must have been.

There's NEVER been another like between two locals.
Click to expand...

:good Never again mate. No need for "petty" name calling for the so called promotion of the fight. Vic wanted Tommy, Tommy wanted Vic, such was the enormous buzz around this fight, the rest was settled in the ring. Both these guys are a credit to the sport and our country. Massive fight indeed mate.

Bugger, Feb 18, 2011

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Bugger Active Member Full Member

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Bobby Sinn said: ↑

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Tommy Burns vs Pran Mikus

Tommy's former oponent, Vic Patrick, as referee.
Click to expand...

Patrick is almost blinding in that get-up!

Bugger, Feb 18, 2011

#44
Bobby Sinn Bulimba Bullant Full Member

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Looks like he's about to play lawn bowls.

Bobby Sinn, Feb 18, 2011

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