RJJ is the greatest ever p4p at his peak

Personally, I think Dariusz's reputation has been enhanced by the fight not having taken place.

I don't think he'd have been a serious threat to Roy.

It's baffling how anyone could have favoured him.

What's that based on?

 

Thanks for the info.

That'll be it then.

Nothing to do with him being 28 in 1997 and almost 40 at the end of 2008.

 

I agree.

The more I read about Greb, the more I'm in awe.

I think from what I've read about him and looking at who he beat, Greb could certainly have beaten him.

Do you go on the Classic at all?

I go on every now and again. There's some great posters on there.

There's a poster called Burt Bienstock who's in his 70's/80's, who lives in New York and who's seen all of the greats. He's watched many fights live and he's been around many of them in the gyms throughout the years. His anecdotes are amazing.

At some point last year, he was talking about Greb and giving his opinion on a fantasy fight. Then another member replied to his post and disrespected his opinion in a sarcastic manner.

The member asked:

"How the hell can you make these absurd predictions when there's not even 1 second of fight footage available!? It's just ridiculous!"

Burt replied back with one of the greatest posts I've ever read whilst I've been a member.

He wrote:

"Well, in my entire lifetime, I have never actually seen a hurricane live in person. But I have seen the devastating after effects that they've left behind."

I'll never forget it.

Of course what he meant by that, was that although there's no actual footage of him available, there's footage available of the guys who he beat, that also go hand in hand with the first hand accounts by many former great fighters and boxing historians.

Harry Greb could well be the greatest fighter who ever lived.

If you have the time, look further into his career.

:good

 

Superb stuff, Loudon. Simply superb. Burt is an institution on the Classic and an elite poster. Thanks for sharing that here.

 

Ruiz is one of my least favorite heavies ever. He was a limited, dirty, boring fighter that kept getting alphabet title shots due to his affiliation with Don King. He obviously was not the best heavy that Roy could have fought. Nevertheless, it was a solid win for Jones, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Thanks.

He sure is.

It's an absolute pleasure to read his posts on any topic.

Do you remember John Garfield?

He was another fantastic poster who was around Burt's age.

He sadly died a few years ago.

I miss him.

What a contrast between guys like John and Burt from the Classic, to guys like Shockmaster here on the General.

:good

 

lol...still talking about me..in a thread ive said nothing in

 

I actually hang around Classic more than General.

The real authority on Greb is a guy called Klompton who probably knows Greb's jock size. Most of the guys there bar one or two fanatics hold him in similarly high regard.

A while ago there was a Greb / Dempsey shytestorm in Classic over the argument whether (a) Greb could have beaten Dempsey and (b) whether Dempsey ducked Greb.

What they did do was spar in Dempsey's preparation for another HW fight, and reportedly Greb busted him up so badly that he got chased out of camp. And Jack was known as a guy to 'spar' his partners into the infirmary.

I agree that Burt's got some great contributions :good

 

I have to agree with you. But apart from only a handful of fighters, he gave everyone he fought a tough fight. And whilst they weren't great HW's, they were top ranked HW's of the time, who'd probably be ranked in today's top 20 if they were active today.

What impressed me the most was the ease in which Roy beat him. Many people thought that the fight was lacklustre. People labelled it as being boring. I'd go along with that. But that's only because of Roy's abilities. I think if Roy had been dropped or hurt and the fight had been exciting like Toney-Jirov, then he'd have gotten a lot more credit.

I respect knowledgeable people's opinions like yours. I want to ask you a question:

Do you think that fighting Dariusz at LHW would have been a much bigger challenge than fighting Ruiz at HW?

I'm sure a lot of people would answer yes straight away. But like I said earlier, I think Dariusz's rep was enhanced by him not having fought Roy. In a P4P sense, you could say that Dariusz was a better fighter than Ruiz. But from what I've seen of Dariusz, I honestly don't think he was as good as what many people think. Yes, he was strong, he was powerful, he was determined. But I don't think he had a great defence, he used to mark up easy, and after seeing him feign injury to get Roch disqualified in their first bout, I have to question his heart. His best wins were a points win over Hill, a controversial stoppage over Griffin, and his rematch win over Roch.

I'd be really interested to read your thoughts.

Again, in my opinion, this comes down to how both Ruiz and Dariusz are perceived. Dariusz appeared to many to have a really impressive resume, whilst Ruiz is classed as being boring and one of the weakest HW's of all time. But when I strip it down, I believe that fighting Ruiz at 235 pounds, who was also taller with a reach advantage, has to be at least comparable to fighting Dariusz at LHW who was the same size as Roy.

I also hold the same opinion regarding Steve Collins. Again, whilst you could argue that Collins was a better fighter than Ruiz on a P4P basis, to me, Roy fighting Ruiz at 235 pounds at 34, presented a bigger challenge than what Collins would have brought at SMW-LHW when Roy was in his 20's.

:good

 

:good

 

If it was so special Toney wouldn't have been able to replicate the same feat. Lets be honest. Ruiz was a manufactured fraud with limited skills and more than a few MW-LHW past or present would have been capable of moving up in weight and schooling him.

 

Solid. But not as good as his fanboys want to make it out.

 

What was most impressive in that fight was Ruiz's manager.

I was impressed by Stoney's cool, considered, well-reasoned advice and his calming effect, not only on his fighter, but on the event.

I understand he's a student of Zen, and achieves his incredible serenity through lengthy periods of daily meditation.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo-lyRlL0P0




.

 

He's not better than a prime Ray RObinson.

Video footage of SRR's true prime is starting to surface- from 1944 to 1947 when he was campaigning at 147 lbs.

That guy could do EVERYTHING at an elite level. He could knock out guys with either hand, knock them out going backwards, or just outbox them to an easy decision.

That guy was the greatest boxer and when you watch footage of him- even during his time when he was a bit past it at MW- you can just see how great he was.

Roy Jones was a phenom, no doubt. But Robinson fought over 100 times at WW without losing to anyone (his loss to Lamotta around his 42nd pro bout wasn't a WW fight as Jake was a full fledged 160 lber.) He also avenged that loss 5 times over including beating Jake within a month after that fight (after having a tuneup fight in between.) His career was mythical-like.

 

dat chin doh