RJJ or May. Who has the better Legacy? p4p ranking?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by surfinghb, Mar 10, 2019.



  1. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,311
    2,243
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 4, 2008
    About as many as Fury before Wlad (sans no one). Or Wilder before Fury (sans maybe Ortiz). Or Jacobs before GGG (sans Pirog).

    So do you think these guys were green?
     
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    20,632
    2,079
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 15, 2008
    It has to be Floyd ... Roy was exceptional but not only did he blow it w decisive KO losses but it brings into question if his chin was always shaky and would have been dented by other all time greats .. Floyd, to his credit, pulled it off.
     
  3. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Full Member

    10,719
    5,137
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jun 9, 2007
    Roy was a greater fighter prime for prime
     
  4. surfinghb

    surfinghb Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,738
    1,740
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 26, 2017
    Short and to the point.. agreed
     
    cuchulain and George Crowcroft like this.
  5. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,164
    2,148
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 26, 2011
    100% agree with this statement. Spot on.
     
    Jackstraw and George Crowcroft like this.
  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,311
    2,243
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 4, 2008
    Well, I and many with me thought it would be a mismatch when he moved up again, but to face Pac. We were very, very wrong.
     
  7. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,164
    2,148
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 26, 2011
     
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,311
    2,243
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 4, 2008
    Ok, so not facing more than one world class opponent no longer automatically makes a fighter green? Good to know we're on the same page at least there.

    But no, it was crystal clear that it isn't a good style for him and that Floyd was just plain better. I saw absolutely no clear improvement between Trout and Lara. And it's not like there were a host of world class opponents between Lara and Canelo. Exactly what performance has made you think he has improved a lot against quality slick, defensive fighters? He hasn't faced anyone since Lara after all.
     
  9. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    31,111
    2,050
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    As always, Floyd was in incredible shape for the Canelo fight. And he looked really sharp. And love him or hate him, you've simply got to respect him.

    I agree with the other posters regarding Canelo.

    It was all psychological.

    He seemed absolutely terrified of getting countered.

    He just wouldn't press him.

    There were many times in that fight where Floyd voluntarily backed himself into the corners and up against the ropes, yet Canelo just stood off of him, and waited and waited. He was so wary of Floyd's speed with his right hand.

    He was tactically naive.

    Oscar laid the blueprint. Because if a guy is trapped up against the ropes and his opponent is pummelling away with combinations, those shots don't have to land. Because the guy who's throwing them is going to catch the judges eyes, and he's going to be awarded for his aggression.

    Canelo should have pressed him like Oscar and Madaina. Madaina just didn't care about anything. Despite him being much less skilled than Canelo, he was in a completely different mindset.

    So although I do give Floyd credit, I can't give him huge credit. Then there's the C-W fiasco which was completely unecessary. Floyd should have let him weigh in at 154 because it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. Also, the heavier Canelo had been, the more credit Floyd would have received. And even though I don't believe for a second that Canelo was drained, by making him come in at 152, he gave his detractors the ammunition that they needed. But that's Floyd for you. He'd rather get a victory at the negotiating table than silence the critics.
     
    KuRuPT and Jackstraw like this.
  10. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    31,111
    2,050
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    Once again, you have added NOTHING to the debate.

    If you're going to come back, then give us an actual breakdown of all of the relevant categories, instead of reminding us of Floyd's dancing exploits etc.

    The only thing so far that's been comical, is the fact that you have failed to answer any of the points that me and other posters have put to you.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    31,111
    2,050
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    Floyd did look great after the lay off.

    But why did he pull those stunts?

    Ego?

    A lack of complete confidence, hoping that the opponent would be at a disadvantage?

    His own actions take the shine off of his wins.

    He didn't need to pull that stuff with JMM or Canelo.
     
    Jackstraw likes this.
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    31,111
    2,050
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    You can't undo what's already been done.

    Also, as someone else as already mentioned, if Roy really did have an awful chin, then it's incredibly impressive that he went undefeated in 50 fights, in a career that spanned 15 years, which saw him fight across 5 divisions.
     
  13. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    31,111
    2,050
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 7, 2012
    Again, it's more psychological.

    He showed too much respect and lacked confidence.

    I think he's now much stronger mentally, and that shows in his performances.

    Slick fighters are always going to give him trouble. But today's Canelo would never give them the time and the space that he gave to Floyd.
     
    KuRuPT likes this.
  14. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,550
    4,284
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 10, 2007
    I'd consider Roy a far greater fighter had he retired after the Ruiz fight.
    Roy looked unbeatable up to the Tarver fights.

    Floyd never looked THAT impressive.

    In fact, when Floyd faced Castillo, most people ranked him below Mosley, Trinidad and ODLH, let alone Jones.

    Roy Jones at his peak looked more impressive than Floyd at any point of his career.

    But Jones' downfall was bad, quick and certainly didn't help Roy's legacy. Roy lost, and lost badly, and often to an average fighters.

    Roy was certainly more physically gifted of the two, but I see why people choose Floyd's consistency over Jones' impressive, but far shorter run. Roy's success depended mostly on his phenomenal reflexes and speed, while Floyd developed great defensive skills, so when he started losing speed, it hadn't affected him as much as it affected Jones, not even close.
     
  15. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,164
    2,148
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 26, 2011
    Let's be clear, in the examples we used, most fighters wouldn't be/aren't ready for that jump in class. There are exceptions, and as I said, it will all be shown in the fight. I just hope you understand I believe this proves my point, he wasn't ready.

    Why do you use the period between trout and Lara? I didn't say there was distinct improvements, though there were, but regardless that isn't the point or the time period. I'm saying he wasnt ready and that is shown by the fighter he is and now become. Do you think the fighter of say khan or GGG no. 2 would be so timid and gunshy? I certainly don't. It seems very clear to me but I guess u think he was prime
     


Sign up for ESPN+ and Stream Live Sports! Advertisement