I've got him at 25 also, had he had the oppurtunity to put Dariusz, Eubank, then Benn or G-man on his record, he'd have been a lock for top 10.
I'm confused. Considering you don't rate old timers in your rankings, than how the hell is Jones even that low?
Head to head, P4P terms, I think a reasonable case can be made for having the 168 Jones at #1. Overall, I have him top 30, as I take resume/accomplishments as the main criteria, with little regard for head to head, but rather how they dominated and looked in their time. In which case, it is possible that I could move him up.
No, I do rate them to a point, I just don't rate them when we make fantasy match ups. You can cook up 24 guys post-40's and on that have better resume's than Jones. Head to head, I rate him as a top 3, everyone knows that.
You guys rating Jones this highly h2h: I sympathise. But what about his chin? Foster, Tiger, Ali, these guys all absorb a better shot than Jones, don't they? I mean, I've seen him get KO'd by one shots, from fighters with good power only. Think the Johnson thing was the canvas?
For me its a matter of hitting him. Sure, if you go to him he may have gone down, but who do you see hitting him cleanly?
Punch resistance usually gets worse as you age, and thing is, none of that was even a factor with a prime Jones because of his defense and reflexes, as well as his counter-punching and offensive ability. Also, Foster does NOT NOT NOT have better punch resistance than Jones. In a P4P sense, what fighters do you see beating him? You've mentioned Moore, which I disagree with. I think Charles has a much better chance of beating Jones. I think Moore is the perfect style for Jones to look great against honestly.
This is about where I have Jones Jr also... I also rate Jones as #1 at 168 H2H.... I dont understand why people are bringing up Roy's chin and holding it against him. If Roy's chin is glass as eveyone says that to me is just more testament to Roy, This just means that Roy went 15 years without taking a solid shot (which is true). I dont think anybody could list 5 fighters in history that was hit less than Jones Jr in his prime
Roy didn't ever fight a great puncher though. Great punchers almost always land. And when two great fighters meet, punch resistance is almost always a factor.
This is BS my friend. Returns on training, maybe, reflexes and avoiding punches DEFINITLEY, but the brain getting closer to the skull? NO. Some fighters do lose punch resistance but that's because they have some blood or bruising on the brain. Not the case with Jones. Sure. But against a great, truly great puncher, these huge factors are not as decicive. You may be right, but as a great, great puncher i'd pick him to beat Jones. Moore is one of the best, if not the best punchers of all time. He's also very special as far as creating chances for himself to land clean. Disaster, disaster for Jones this. I pick Moore.
He fought two very accurate punchers though in Hopkins and Toney, and rarely got hit clean. Was effected by nothing from Virgill Hill, including his jab, just didn't work. Roy had a way of negating people's strengths with his speed, reflexes, and timing. Ali would often get caught with stuff that Roy would slip easily, which is why I laugh when someone sits their and tells me Ali was faster or better physically than Jones. Not really close to me.
How's this for ****ed up Sweet Pea - I think that Jones would have a really good chance at beating Dempsey.