RJJ record V FMJ record

Knockout,

Hi pal, thanks for your great reply.

Yeah, I've read the reports. Like I say, I don't like him. Maybe it's just an act for the cameras, but he comes across as a dick to me.

Likewise mate. I always look out for your posts.

I especially love the arguments you have with Dino. I like Dino. I used to love your debates/arguments with Zod, and I know he's not around as much now. He's obviously busy.

I respect your opinion mate, and we've all be done out of a great fight.

I've got this mate who's a really good lad, and he likes boxing. But he's basically an armchair fan that doesn't know a great deal. I only see him like 2 or 3 times a year, he's an old school mate. Everytime I'm out, he comes up to me and asks me if Mayweather and Manny are going to fight. Ha! This has been going on for 3 or 4 years now. I can remember telling him ages ago "I'm certain it's going to happen next year etc." I last saw him at X-mas. I said "Before you ask, the fight is DEFINITELY not happening now, and never will!" Ha!

It's a real shame! We could have seen a couple of fights between them.

Well I would say that he was objective, because HBO at the time, were fed up of Roy fighting the Frazier's and Harmon's of the world. Kerry was under enormous pressure to deliver a huge relevant fight that everyone wanted. Yes, Roy was an HBO fighter, but Kerry was working in their best interests. DM was well known in the U.S. but only through name only. His name was banded around as Roy's rival, who'd never been beaten, and fans were reading about him in magazines etc. It was a strange situation where everyone knew the name, but they hadn't really seen him in action.

That's why Kerry came up with the great idea of showcasing a double header. The fans could get to see him, and it would have hyped their fight and it made it huge. It was a great idea. In my absolute honest opinion, DM didn't want it, so Kohl pretended DM had been degraded in someway. HBO never said "We want Dariusz on an undercard." It was a double header, and it was in everyone's best interest. Kerry had absolutely no reason to lie or exaggerate anything. He met with Brad Jacobs, and Kohl was never available to speak to, and he wouldn't negotiate a starting price.

If Dariusz had've had other big fights in the U.S. you could make a case, but he never showed any desire to leave his comfort zone in Germany.

There's various quotes, I thought you'd read them all?

That's fine, I respect your opinion, and that's your call. But Kerry was under pressure, he wouldn't lie, and his intentions were crystal clear when he tried to make the double header. There was no reason whatsoever for DM to turn it down.

He was too proud to play second fiddle to Roy (even though he wouldn't have been) yet he was happy to fight Hall TWICE and De Grandis? How does that make any sense?

Again, fair enough. But I would say Kerry was independent, and his priority was what was best for HBO. Also, just look what DM did afterwards. It's pretty clear he was comfortable defending his WBO belt in Germany. Nothing changed, he just carried on doing what he'd been doing.

But apart from Hill, DM was content to fight Roy's leftovers who had already been dominated by Roy.

Fair enough. But I've no reason to not believe him, and the comments he made were during negotiations with Fred Levin to tie up the Ruiz fight. I don't see why he would have lied. He was interviewed regarding the Ruiz fight, and DM's name was mentioned. I've also got no reason to disbelieve Roy.

The difference is, Kohl made all the right noises about sitting down after the weekend etc, but in reality, he was never available to sit down and discuss anything.

Taking offence to the double header was ridiculous. There's no way he misinterpreted HBO's wishes.

The comments that Brad Jacobs made were true, and when he said "We" in the article, he was referring to him sat alongside Davis.

Again, Kerry Davis is a reliable source. He wasn't taking sides, he just did everything he could to make the fight on behalf of HBO.


It's been great debating with you again, after such a long time.

Just reply back when you have time mate.

 

But Bernard is better than all of them. And Toney is better than all except Marquez imo.

 

Hi mate, sorry for the late reply, it's been a busy few days

I agree, Tony's an intense guy, but a lot of it is unnecessary, when he's talking about how he's willing to die in the ring, and how he'll go to war, then come fight night he's boxing cautiously off the backfoot... But he comes across well on here, I think he's a decent guy, he just acts up when the pressures on in press conferences and so on

Thanks mate, dino's a joker There's a thread in the classic forum about Wlad Klitschko v Marciano, and it's gone over 100 pages, with 80 pages of it being dino trying to argue that 185 pounds 5 foot 10 Marciano would somehow walk through and KO 250 pounds Wlad inside 5 rounds. I know he hates me, but I think he's funny. It's been a while since me and zod have gone at it! He's definitely one of the most knowledgeable posters on here

It's damaging to the sport, a couple of my mates are big MMA fans, and they constantly use the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight not happening as reason to why boxing is on the way out, and MMA is the future! I do loosely follow UFC, only the big fights, but they have a point! In UFC, when the fans want a fight, Dana White makes it happen, with multiple promoters and governing bodies, we don't get those fights in boxing! I think the Government need to step in and start regulating the sport, in the US and over here, fighters and fans are getting screwed over all the time. Did you see the Rule Britannia card Frank Warrren tried to set up? With Burns-Vasquez, Cleverly-Krasniqi, Groves and Chisora on the card? People spent a lot of money to come down from Scotland and everywhere, and the Burns - Vasquez fight was never even made!

I see, you are more well read and informed on this then I'll ever be. Ultimately, I read everything from both sides with a degree of cynicism. I love Jones style of fighting, and think he was greater, but I question his desire to make the big fights in his prime. I don't see why Darius would want to have big fights in the US? At Germany, he has his German and Polish fanbase, and he was obviously making pretty good money for fighting mediocre opponents. If Murad and Kerry were serious about getting Darius over to the US, they needed to throw large sums of money at him, which I doubt they did, or they needed to make concessions and pay Roy large sums of money to go to Germany. Either way, in my opinion, you can say DM didn't want it and I agree, but Jones didn't want it either. And it shows in both guys resumes, the opposition Jones was facing at that time wasn't really any better, between Toney and Ruiz, the only top guys Roy fought were Virgil Hill, Montell Griffin and Reggie Johnson, Darius beat both Hill and Griffin, and Johnson didn't really do much after losing to Roy.

I don't really know what Kerry's intentions were, but in this kind of situation, where Roy is the HBO fighter, he was hardly going to paint Roy in a bad light, while he was one of the main stars on his network. I'm not convinced by this offer of a double header, often networks and promoters will say they've gone to every effort to make a fight that never happened, Frank W is renowned for it

I agree that DM's opposition was very mediocre, the only issue that Roy's was as well

Fair enough, I can't comment either way on this

The only issue I have with this, is who's saying Kohl wasn't available to negotiate? I'm not saying he was, but he himself says the opposite. Which is why I tend to disregard the comments of both sides, as both have their own agendas. If they really wanted the fight, it would have happened, in America, Germany or on neutral territory. I'm sure after watching De La Hoya-Sturm, Darius won't have many regrets about not going to America

Sorry for taking a few days to get back to you mate, but thanks for the response, look forward to hearing from you soon

 

knockout artist,

Part 1.

Hiya pal, sorry for the very late reply, I've been busy the last few days. I hope you had a great weekend.

Like you say, he's maybe just trying to hype his fights. His fight with Cleverly had a good build up.

There's some good posters on here. I enjoy reading Dino's posts, and I think I've probably learnt more from Zod than any other poster on here.

That was a shame about the Burns fight being canceled, and I feel sorry for the fans. I used to be a big fan of the UFC in the 90's, but I don't really follow it now. The fans do have a point, but the UFC is less than 20 years old, and it's easy to manage with only one man in charge. I'm not saying that Dana has an easy job, and I would expect that it's very demanding, but he doesn't encounter the same problems that arise in boxing. He controls the Company and all of the fighters etc. He's solely responsible for putting together the fight cards, and he can put all of his top fighters on, to make a great show.

But you obviously can't do that in boxing, with the rival organisations, the rival promoters, and the rival tv networks etc. It would be great if you could have Mayweather, Martinez, Wlad K etc all on the same card. But it could never happen. So I respect what Dana has done, but it's a different sport, that's easier to oversea, with a lot less complications. I wish there were only 3 belts to fight for, with less weight classes, and the best had to fight the best, and there were regular unifications etc. But there's too many fighters. Compare the amount of MMA fighters to the amount of pro boxers. There's always been boxing politics, but it seems to be getting worse as each year goes by. The lesser known organisations can be good for young fighters coming through, but it's making boxing weaker. Boxing has changed so much in the last 20 years. I wish things could go back to what they were, and I'd like to see the return of 15 rounds for big championship fights.

I agree that DM had no desire or no need to leave Germany. Why would he have? He was on to a good thing, earning good money, for fighting mainly average guys. I don't think he ever wanted Roy despite what he said. But fighters have pride and huge ego's. It's very rare for a fighter to be honest like Eubank was, and say that they're content doing what they're doing etc. DM was never going to publicly say that he didn't want to fight Roy. That's why in my honest opinion, Kohl had to claim DM had been insulted by the Double Header. HBO never said "We want Dariusz on a Roy Jones undercard." Like I've said many times, the double header would have promoted the fight, and both fighters would have benefited. Kohl said it was an insult, but then Dariusz ended up fighting Hall twice and De Grandis.

According to the links and the video, HBO offered him $5M and it still wasn't enough, even though he was apparently making $1-1.5M per fight. I respect your opinion, but if Roy doesn't want to do something, then he won't. I think that had he not wanted to fight DM at all, he wouldn't have paid Brad Jacobs to go and meet with Kerry Davis and the others at HBO to try and make the fight.

I think Roy's opposition was pretty decent, and a lot better than DM's. Dariusz beat Hill first, and he fought Roch who was decent, but apart from that, Roy's 175 resume eclipses Dariusz's. He easily beat Reggie Johnson, he destroyed Hill and Griffin, then toyed with Woods, Gonzalez and Hall, fought Harding, and then beat Tarver after dropping back from Heavy. Their 175 resumes aren't even close in my opinion.

 

Part 2.

Like I say, Kerry was under pressure to deliver the network a huge fight. The double header was a great idea, because the U.S. fans had hardly seen Dariusz fight. There's no evidence to support the theory that the double header wasn't genuine, because we know that Kohl dismissed it, and gave a poor excuse.

I agree to a certain extent. But Roy made things look so easy. He beat good-very good guys, and made them look like nothing. But after Roy beat them, they went on to cause other good fighters lots of problems. If Roy had have been involved in more competitive fights, his resume would look a lot better. I've mentioned this in a previous thread. Roy was that dominant in his prime, it's actually worked against him. Roy didn't need rematches etc in his prime.

Roy's resume would probably be a lot more appreciated, if it looked like this:

Toney X 3, Hop X 2, Hill X 2, Reggie Johnson X 2, Ruiz X 2.

He beat Toney, Hill, Reggie and Ruiz without losing a single round.

People always say that Roy had a weak resume. But if you compare it to other guys who fought around the same time, around the same weight classes etc, and look at how dominant he was, then he's actually got a pretty strong resume.

I respect your opinion.

But when I weigh everything up, I can only come to one conclusion.

I think Kerry Davis was independent, and I've no reason not to believe his statement.

Kohl had no logical reason to dismiss the double header, when it would have showcased Dariusz to the U.S. fans, and it would have hyped the fight, and made both guys a lot of money.

He dismissed the proposal, by implying that DM was offended.

But history has shown us, that Dariusz was more than happy to fight Richard Hall TWICE, after he'd been destroyed by Roy, and De Grandis. So that proves to me that Kohl was talking nonsense. Dariusz didn't want to play second fiddle to the worlds best fighter, yet he was happy to fight the guys mentioned as well as Harmon etc.

Then there's his record.

There's no Harding's or Tarver's on his record, and he never showed any desire to leave Germany to fight ANYBODY else.

If he'd have fought the other top fighters in the division, and he'd have raised his profile in America, and looked for big fights, then I might be more inclined to believe Kohl's side of things.

But when I see a poor excuse given, and I look at his resume, then look at statements by Kerry Davis, Murad, and Roy, I can only come to one conclusion.

There is no evidence whatsoever to support the claim that Dariusz and Kohl actually wanted that fight.

It's been a pleasure debating with you mate, and I really enjoyed reading your post. Again, sorry for the late reply, and just reply back to me whenever you have the time.

Thanks!