RJJ v. Toney II (at HW, ~2004/'05)

I would still say RJJ by points. Even a post Tarver RJJ had enough confidence in his speed to keep distance.

Toney was not a southpaw so i can't see his right hand bothering RJJ as much as Tarver's big southpaw left did. Heavyweight Toney IMO wasn't quick enough to deal with RJJ, who still had speed to spare.

RJJ by decision 8-4.

Now if you take cruiserweight Toney (vs Jirov) vs RJJ coming off a Tarver loss, then it gets interesting. Cruiser Toney could maintain a good work rate and was quicker than heavyweight Toney. I will have to think carefully about that one.

 

Even though Jones was past it at that point and Toney was having a big time resurgence, I would still take Jones because of the style matchup. Jones's speed is the real key and if you really look at James Toney's post Montell Griffin fight career, you will see a pattern of him facing almost exclusively bangers/swarmers. He avoided guys that had speed and movement and preferred to counter punch slower guys to death. He turned down three significant fight offers from Juan Carlos Gomez, Bhop at 190 and Chris Byrd at heavyweight. He wanted no part of those style fighters and for all of his calling out of Roy Jones, it was just noise. I don't believe for a second Roy Jones avoided him. It would have been another boring fight with Roy pecking away with his speed and James trying to counter. The difference is, Jones would only throw or two punches at a time where guys like Jirov, Holyfield etc tried to beat on James with aggression. That never worked against him even back in his super middleweight days ( see the Barkley fight).

 

Post Tarver loss, Toney stops him timing can make the difference in boxing (at what point they meet).
Toney would counter Jones’ lead rights and left hooks by catching them and uppercutting, as the rounds go on, he’d start pressuring him and getting to him.

 

From 160-175, Roy wins. From 190-heayvyweight, Toney wins. At the higher weights, Jones advantages would be diminished and he does not have the chin. And for a Jones rematch, this would be one of the few times Toney would be in tip top shape.

 

James Toney is an underrated HW.
And in the current fight RJJ Vs. Toney; Toney was knocked down, because he was showing off. Although RJJ won that fight.
This fight in 2004 - 2005 was won by Toney by knockout.

 

I'm a big Jones fan, but I wouldn't have much faith in him beating a top level operator beyond 2003.

 

You’ve got to be very specific here.

When would this have happened hypothetically?

Instead of the Tarver and Johnson fights?

After them?

If it’s after them, then definitely Toney.

 

Roy didn’t have any confidence after the losses to Tarver and Johnson.

It would have to depend exactly when it was.

 

Bernard was never fighting Toney.

Is this after the back to back knockout losses?

Or instead of?

 

Not sure what you are talking about? Neither Toney or Hopkins were ever knocked out let alone back to back. This fight was absolutely discussed and almost happened. See the Ring magazine cover below.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur..._l9dsrb8vJM&vssid=_0KOBZ_a4AbWqwbkP0bGkmAM_30

 

Bernard was all mouth.

He was never fighting Toney at that weight.

I was referring to Roy having suffered back to back knockouts.

I was asking, if this hypothetical question of him fighting Toney in a rematch, was on the back of those losses, or instead of.

Because that would have made a huge difference.

If it came on the back of those losses, then I see no way for Roy to have won.

 

I’d have taken Roy for sure.

But if it. had been in your time frame, after his back to back knockout losses to Tarver and Johnson, then Toney, 100%.

Johnson bullied him for 9 rounds and knocked him cold. He was damaged goods at that point. So I couldn’t see how he could have gone back up and fought Toney.

That’s why I asked you to be specific. Because the different timelines make a huge difference.

Thanks.

 

Bernard was NOT all mouth. I believe he would have fought Toney at the proposed 190 catch weight. Toney was the one that moved to Heavyweight instead. Remember, Bhop was fought monster punchers like Sergey Kovalev and Tavous Cloud when he was almost 50 years old and before that fought everyone that was put in front of him regardless of style. He was not afraid of James Toney and likely would have used his legs to outbox the less mobile Toney. Toney was a different guy at Cruiserweight than he was at Middleweight. He beat guys with counterpunching and avoided guys that could box. I remember this time period very well and Goosen Tutor and Don King very nearly made this fight. Instead, Toney went after Heavyweight glory and BHOP took Tarver to school.