Roach "Manny is better than Mayweather, Hatton wont land one body punch"!

So if Manny beats Hatton more convincingly after beating Oscar more convincingly, builds up a better resume, wins titles in more weight divisions, retires having held more linear titles, retires having become the 1st man in history to win world titles at fly and light, and 1st in history to win world titles at fly and light-welter...

...none of that will be enough to say he was greater than a man with a 39 fight career who fought at best only decent comp above 135?


Hmmmm. Better watch out or it might look like you are bluntly refusing to credit Pacquiao, and I know you'd hate that.

 

Skillset is not the main factor when it comes to evaluating career greatness.

It's about what the fighters actually done, rather than what could they have done with their ability or what they were capable of.

Right now I rank Mayweather slightly higher than Pacquiao in ATG terms, but if former flyweight world champion Pac wins a world title at a 6th weight div by beating a natural lww and the no.1 lww in the world, Pac has a strong case for being higher, and if he continues to win big after that he WILL be greater.

In time, Pacquiao will be remembered as a weight-jumping miracle. Mayweather's legacy is stagnating and his resume is depreciating.

 

Just mind games.

If there's one thing that Roach does know about Hatton, it's that Ricky can easily lose the plot, see red and totally forget his game-plan, ending up charging around the ring, bullishly, like we saw to an extent against Floyd.

Ricky just needs to realise that Roach is trying to get under his skin and use it against him. Floyd Snr will be a great help to keep him focused.

I mean, C'mon. Freddie is one of the most knowledgeable people in boxing but anyone reading that would think he doesn't know what he's talking about. Which, I think, is proof that this is mind games.

 

In terms of boxing skills Mayweather is better.

In terms of resume, i think Pacmans going to fly past Mayweather.

 

I credit Pacquiao.

But his resume has holes in it just like every other fighter. He came around when the thee best fighters on his resume were on there way out. His second best win is marquez, in a fight i felt he lost..and you felt he lost. Manny has been very fortunate in his career.

 

I completely agree with everything you say, except your very last point. It seems that many people consider to be a real easy cutter, which just isn't true anymore! He hasn't cut since before Kostya and that is all because, due to him cutting easily (because of very sharp eye brows), he had surgery and actually had that part of the skull shaved and filed down and smoothed out. Since then, he just hasn't looked like cutting there at all and he has fought some real heavy hitters, with his usual face first style.

On top of that, even when he was cutting, all those years ago, there was never real any big worry that the fight would be stopped because he has the very best cut man in the business in his corner.

No. Pac is a real sharp shooter but it won't be the cuts that win the fight for him.

 

He beat a prime Barrera, IMO he went 1-1 with a prime Marquez IMO, he beat the same Erik Morales that beat him once, then brutalized the remains in 3.

He is a former flyweight world champ who took on the best possible opposition at fw and sfw again and again.

He done it the hard way, the right way.

Above lightweight, did Floyd??

 

What the ****!!!?????

 

He went 0-2 with the only prime fighter he fought other than Marco in my opinion. Marquez.

Barrera was in his prime, but I maintain that had it been the best version of Marco that we ever saw (vs Hamed), he would have been a lot more competitive. He wasn't in the right frame of that mind, he expected to sit back and pick off a young fighter like Manny, just as he had done vs Kelley and Tapia, and it wasn't happening. He was way more competitive 4 years later. I give him full credit for beating Marco, they are just my personal feelings of someone who has seen most if not all of Marco's fights from 115 to 135.

Erik Morales was on his way out by the time Manny Pacquiao came into the picture. His last great performance was in beating Manny. The third fight didn't mean a thing.

Oscar De La Hoya, let's not even mention that.

I'm not a Floyd supporter, I've always criticized him for taking on easy opposition above 135. That said, Manny gets embarrassed by Floyd at any weight.

 

I'm pretty sure he meant a body shot of significance...Almost like you can say Gatti didn't land a single punch against Mayweather. In reality he landed a few, but nothing at all of any sort of remote significance

 

Goddamn Freddy is an idiot

 

He has become significantly more vocal in recent times than he used to be. It wouldn't be such a problem if he wasn't coming out with stupid ****.

 

Manny makes Roach look good as a trainer, not the other way round as Roach probably likes to think.

 

Mayweather started at 130, fought at 135, 140, 147 for years, fought as high as 154 once.

Pacquiao started at 106, fought at 112, 122, 126, 130 for years, has fought as high as 147 once.

Pacquiao would be beaten by Mayweather at Mayweather's natural and peak weight class (the 5th weight class Pacquiao fought at, the 4th weight division he won a world title at, 7 weight classes away from the one he started out at) or above.

What does that prove with regard to all-time career greatness?

 

Pacquiao was really a super bantamweight at the very least, he moved up from 106 because he was weight drained.

I think Mayweather was a legitimate 130lb fighter from the beginning, and just moved through the divisions for challenges and belts.

I think the best Manny was the one that fought Marquez the second time, so as a Super Featherweight. Mayweather embarrasses Manny at 130lb.

For example, I think Erik Morales and Marco Barrera at their best were much better fighters than Manny. Both of them will just about scrap the top 100 whereas Manny is inevitably higher. Same with Mayweather Jr.