Robert James Fitzsimmons vs. Samuel E. Langford

I think that comparing their consistency would be misleading.

Langford fought an absurdly hectic schedule, and possibly wore the cuffs sometimes.

Fitzsimmons was consistently fighting high quality opposition, but he was generally able to take those fights when he fought that the time was right, and benefited from proper preparation and recovery.

 

When you get into the detail of the incidents, you often find that Fitz hurt somebody with a well placed punch, then finished them with a barrage.

Langford seems to just be able to produce a punch from nowhere, and leave the guy out cold.

This keeps happening again and again!

 

I see how this is a case for him being a bigger puncher, but I don't see it as a case for him being better.

 

I'm a fan of Fitzsimmons and this is no contest to me. I see Langford breaking, simply breaking through Fitzsimmons' subpar defense. The few shots that Fitzsimmons will throw in the early rounds, Langford will dodge most and shake off the rest. Perhaps Fitzsimmons will get a flash knockdown. But once Langford closes in it's over. His full salute posture and spindly legs make it too easy to Langford to land his shots. Those devastating combos of Langford will be on full display... it will be ugly in there.

 

Did any of their contemporaries consider Langford the more skilled of the two?

 

Sandy Ferguson sparred with Fitz, and fought Langford, and he gave the edge to Fitz!

 

I think that Langford must be the all time master of delivery!

 

I think that's fair enough. I pick Fitz, but I can see arguments for Fitz, however I don't think a lot of the arguments ITT actually ring true from what I've read of both in their times (admittedly more of Fitz).

I think it's basically Langford fighting better opponents more often, and having more mixed results, versus Fitz being more consistent, but against not as strong opposition, but in generally much more dominant fashion.

 

There's always more context, but just to start off here are the results of the big fights. If you think I missed any, I'm happy to take any corrections. Like I said this is just to get the ball rolling.

Bob Fitzsimmons
1889 Jim Hall RTD 5
1890 Jim Hall L KO 4
1890 Starlight TKO 9
1890 Billy McCarthy RTD 10
1891 Jack Dempsey KO 13 (boxrec lists it as an RTD but the reports say it was a KO)
1891 Harris Martin NWS W 4
1892 Peter Maher RTD 12
1893 Jim Hall KO 4
1894 Joe Choynski Police stoppage 5
1894 Dan Creedon KO 2
1896 Peter Maher KO 1
1896 Tom Sharkey DQ 8
1897 James J Corbett KO 14
1899 James J Jeffries L KO 11
1900 Jim Daly TKO 1
1900 Ed Dunkhorst KO 2
1900 Gus Ruhlin KO 6
1900 Tom Sharkey KO 2
1902 James J Jeffries L KO 8
1903 George Gardner PTS 20
1904 Philadelphia Jack O'Brien Police stoppage 6
1905 Philadelphia Jack O'Brien L RTD 13
1907 Jack Johnson L KO 2

23 fights, 17 wins, 15 by stoppage, by 10 KO

Sam Langford
1903 Joe Gans PTS 15
1903 Jack Blackburn PTS 12 (prearranged draw)
1904 Dave Holly PTS 10
1904 Joe Walcott D PTS 15
1904 Dave Holly D PTS 15
1904 Jack Blackburn D PTS 15
1905 Dave Holly NWS W 15
1905 Young Peter Jackson PTS 15
1905 Young Peter Jackson PTS 15
1905 Larry Temple L PTS 15
1905 Jack Blackburn PTS 15
1905 Larry Temple D PTS 15
1905 Jack Blackburn D PTS 10
1905 Young Peter Jackson D PTS 15
1905 Joe Jeannette L TKO 8
1906 Larry Temple KO 15
1906 Joe Jeannette PTS 15
1906 Jack Johnson L PTS 15
1906 Young Peter Jackson L KO 5
1906 Young Peter Jackson PTS 15
1907 Joe Jeannette D PTS 12
1907 Larry Temple NWS W 10
1907 Young Peter Jackson PTS 20
1908 Joe Jeannette D PTS 12
1908 Larry Temple W PTS 8
1908 Sandy Ferguson PTS 12
1908 Joe Jeannette NWS W 6
1908 Fireman Jim Flynn KO 1
1909 Sandy Feruson D PTS 12
1910 Dixie Kid KO 3
1910 Fireman Jim Flynn NWS L 10
1910 Fireman Jim Flynn KO 8
1910 Stanley Ketchel NWS W/D 6
1910 Joe Jeannette PTS 15
1910 Jeff Clark TKO 2
1911 Joe Jeannette PTS 12
1911 Sam McVea D PTS 20
1911 Philadelphia Jack O'Brien KO 5
1911 Joe Jeannette NWS W 10
1911 Sam McVea L PTS 20
1912 Sam McVea PTS 20
1912 Sam McVea PTS 20
1912 Sam McVea TKO 11
1912 Sam McVea KO 13
1913 Sam McVea D PTS 20
1913 Joe Jeannette NWS D 10
1913 Gunboat Smith L PTS 12
1913 Joe Jeannette PTS 20
1914 Harry Wills NWS D 10
1914 Joe Jeannette NWS D 10
1914 Gunboat Smith KO 3
1914 Jeff Clark NWS L 10
1914 Harry Wills KO 14
1915 Joe Jeannette L PTS 12
1915 Sam McVea L PTS 12
1915 Sam McVea D PTS 20
1915 Sam McVea NWS D 10
1915 Harry Wills NWS L 10
1916 Harry Wills L PTS 20
1916 Harry Wills KO 19
1916 Sam McVea NWS W 10
1916 Harry Wills NWS L 10
1916 Jeff Clark TKO 5
1916 Sam McVea NWS W 10
1916 Harry Wills NWS L 8
1916 Sam McVea NWS D 12
1916 Joe Jeannette KO 7
1916 Sam McVea D 20
1917 Harry Wills NWS L 6
1917 Fred Fulton L TKO 7
1917 Joe Jeannette NWS W 12
1917 Harry Wills NWS L 10
1917 Harry Wills NWS D 12
1918 Harry Wills L KO 6
1918 Harry Wills L TKO 8
1918 Jeff Clark D PTS 12
1918 Jeff Clark D PTS 10
1918 Jeff Clark NWS L 6
1918 Jeff Clark PTS 8
1918 Fred Fulton L PTS 4
1919 Harry Wills NWS L 8
1919 Harry Wills NWS L 10
1919 Harry Wills L PTS 15
1920 Jeff Clark NWS W 10
1920 Jeff Clark NWS D 10
1920 Harry Wills L PTS 15
1920 George Godfrey D PTS 10
1920 Jeff Clark PTS 15
1920 Sam McVea NWS W 10
1920 Bearcat Wright PTS 10
1920 George Godfrey KO 2
1921 Bearcat Wright KO 9
1921 George Godfrey KO 1
1922 Harry Wills L PTS 10
1922 Tiger Flowers KO 2
1922 Bearcat Wright D PTS 20
1922 Bearcat Wright RTD 5
1923 Fireman Jim Flynn PTS 10
1923 Bearcat Wright L KO 9
1923 Fireman Jim Flynn KO 3
1924 Fireman Jim Flynn PTS 8

101 fights, 25/24 draws, 49/48 wins, 21 by stoppage, 20 by KO

I may have made a few errors with the stats, it's hard to get these things perfect, and there's obviously subjectivity in which fights count. There's always a lot more going on too, so you obviously can't just go off of stuff like this to judge fighters, but I think it should atleast give some people pause.

 

Hell of a match up. Likely the top two middleweights of all time and the top two all time pound for pound punchers.

 

Fitz had bad hands for a lot of his career and often sought permission to put extra wrapping on them ,he did this in the 1900 fight with Ruhlin.We know his hands were bad for the Jeffries rematch Gilbert Odd mentions it in his bio of Fitz. Langford went the distance a lot? I think we have to factor in that he might have agreed to a "charitable arrangement" in some of those fights.

 

I think Langford was ,"under wraps," in the Ferguson fights.

 

My gut was telling my Langford, but this should definitely be factored into the equation.

 

He also had hand issues in the first Maher fight, and pretty much just outboxed Maher until he quit.

He may have had the cuff on for some of them, but it's even the case against other black opponents.