Roberto Duran or Joe Louis ? Whos higher on the ATG List ?

which lightweight would beat duran? Pernell and ike williams maybe, i wouldnt pick anyone else.

 

Hard to say since Duran was a pretty unstoppable LW. I think he's probably the best in that division with maybe a couple people in the entire sport with a shot at winning. Whitaker, Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, and Henry Armstrong all could win, I think.

 

Duran.

 

Louis. Best hw ever and most successful title defenses in history, still to this day.

 

Not even close.

Nope. Foreman was nowhere near the same level of fighter as prime Leonard.

Is that a joke?

No. This is one of the greatest wins ever, but it still isn't quite as good as Duran-Leonard 1.

Nope.

No. A great win, but not as great. Like Foreman, Tyson was more flawed and beatable than Ray Leonard was.

Not even close.

Nah, definitely not as good.



Any more suggestions?

 

He was considered invincible... but the key word is "considered". He was not invincible. He was an excellent, but flawed and beatable fighter. People get far too swayed by pre-fight hype when evaluating a win - many idiots still think Calzaghe-Lacy was the win of the decade because the US media hyped Jeff before that one, completely disregarding Lacy's limitations as a fighter which were patently obvious to anyone who had seen him fight. Tyson was always a more flawed and beatable fighter than Ray Leonard was. Taking on a peak Leonard at Leonard's weight and outfighting him over 15 stupendously high-class and hard-fought rounds is far, far, FAR more impressive from a boxing perspective than someone finally standing up to that Tokyo version of Tyson.

 

You have listed some of the greatest wins in history there, and I don't think anyone could argue that these choices were valid:

Turpin-Robinson, Greb-Tunney (IMO a real contender for the very best OAT), Langford-Wills.

In fact, you could throw Langford beating Flowers in there too.

But I can't agree that the following rival Duran-Leonard:

Charles-Moore, Charles-Burley, Langford-Gans, Fitzsimmons-Corbett, Armstrong-Ross, Pep-Saddler

There is not one of these that I don't think are sensational wins (though I don't feel Fitzsimmons-Corbett belongs in this discussion, whereas the others do). My main reason is that Duran was the older, smaller man stepping in with a noticeably bigger, naturally heavier, fresher, far faster, arguably more explosive, peak version of one of the greatest fighters ever. I don't believe Charles or Pep or Langford faced these significant, tangible disadvantages to the same extent in these instances. Re Armstrong-Ross, that version of Barney Ross was patently not the same calibre of opponent that the Ray Leonard of Montreal was. And Corbett was not close to that calibre that night or any other night of his career.

What do you think McGrain?

 

Louis is #2 behind SRR

 

bump

 

Louis ALL THE WAY. Louis won on a 14 yr win streak and Koed nearly every Hw contender of his day.

 

Duran did not beat prime Leonard, and then he was beaten easily in the rematch. Fact Leonard is the only great he ever beat, and Duran never knocked out a great fighter. Davey Moore and Barkley were second tries after Duran lost to Benitez and Hagler at the same weights. And was demolished by Hearns.

 

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.....nut

Everything else:tired:tired:tired:tired:tired:deal

 

Sorry Duranimal. I know you have heard me say this before. Look, I think he is great, but this thing where he is the best ever I do not agree with. I can't. Great fighter? Yes. Dominant yes. opposition at lightweight? Mediocre. Wins above the weight. Lacking the great wins, but he beat mediocre guys like Moore and Barkley. I just do not see this comparison to him being one of the best ever.

 

MAG, I don't think he's the best ever & you say he beat mediocre champs in Moore/Barkley but the reason Duran's victory's over these (In your eyes) mediocre champs is celebrated is due to the fact that he was meant to be a washed up overweight old man at 32 & 37 years of age respectfully & least we forget that he beat let alone survived Barkley who KO Hearns & then took his Lt/Heavy title from him & went in as a 4/1 dog against the new superster in waiting that was Moore & beat the poor **** near on to death.

It's about time you started giving Duran a bit more credit for what he was able to achieve though guts/skill & willpower after humiliating himself in New Orleans. It ai'nt just the fights that duran was in it's the fight in the man thats also been his attraction.

If there was no Duran then there'd be no fab 4 as Duran was the catalyst, he made all 3 in one way or the other.