Roberto Duran. Overrated or what?!

Vanboxingfan · Jun 28, 2009

radab said: ↑

The voice of dissent is not, i repeat NOT backing down

Good on you Lionel, challenging "accepted truths" is often a worthwhile pursuit
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Challenging "acceptable truths" might be a noble cause in many instances, unfortunately this isn't one of them.

What he should to is actually watch as many Duran fights as he can and then at least he'll be in a position to make an informed opinion. His fights against Leonard and Barkley are absolute masterpieces. Even his loss to Hagler was extremely impressive when you consider how great a middleweight Hagler was.

5Burowz · Jun 29, 2009

Can somebody holler at Wil E. Coyote to get us some ACME Dynamite so we can blow this thread up once and for all and never have to see it again?

socrates · Jun 29, 2009

huh?

Curtis Lowe · Jun 29, 2009

Lionel Rose said: ↑

Having just read George Kimball's 'Four Kings' tome - which was a good read, for sure - I just don't see Duran as being in the same league as the other three greats mentioned therein, i.e. Hagler / Leonard or the original 'Hitman' - Hearns.
Am I alone in my assessment of rating 'Hands of Stone' as little more than a street thug with only basic boxing skills?
Okay, he beat Sugar Ray fair and square in their first outing, but this was more down to Leonard 'not showing up' on the night, and Hagler giving him far too much respect in their match-up, resulting in probably Hagler's poorest showing in a world title bout.
I was miffed at Kimball's description of Kirkland Laing as merely 'a journeyman,' when, in truth, had he applied himself, 'the Gifted One' could surely have won a version of the world crown.
He boxed rings around Duran, only to get a majority decision against the 'home' fighter that night.
Duran was also most fortunate to get a decision against Scotland's finest, Kenny Buchanan, when, after hitting him 'south of the border' for the umpteenth time, Buchanan was unable to continue.
Not only was Duran gifted the stoppage win, but Buchanan was never granted the automatic rematch he should so obviously been granted.
No, Duran was just a determined little street brawler, albeit with much grit and determination when he was 'up for it,' but got well and truly found out against most decent quality opposition.
It's high time that the Duran myth was exposed once and for all.
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You seem to have missed the 6 1/2 years as lightweight champ (excluding the Buchanan fight), also left out how the man moved from 135 pounds to fight first welterweights, the jr. middleweights, then middleweights (also one of the greatest middleweights), doing all of this while he was probably past his prime.

NALLEGE · Jun 29, 2009

5Burowz said: ↑

Can somebody holler at Wil E. Coyote to get us some ACME Dynamite so we can blow this thread up once and for all and never have to see it again?
Click to expand...

mughalmirza786 · Jun 29, 2009

Lionel Rose said: ↑

Who gives a **** what 'The Ring' magazine say?
Top 10 / 20 / 30 / 100........it's purely subjective.
It's absolutely impossible to say that one fighter from X era is better than another from Y era.
Any number of factors can dictate the outcome of a fight, and consequently one can only judge and accurately gauge a fighter by the contests in which he participates during his career - anything else is pure speculation.
Duran, undoubtedly a pure fighting machine, swept aside dozens of lightweights in the first half of his career.
However, under close scrutiny, his record that you mention, which includes 103 victories, looks fairly hollow when you could argue that a good 70 of those victories are against your proverbial 'Mexican roadsweeper.'
Yes, he took half a dozen decent looking scalps along the way, but I would still contend that he lost to too many of his contemporaries to be considered a true ring legend.
I know that I'm well outnumbered on this board, but hey, I ain't no sheep.
I'm sticking to my guns. Duran was overrated, and no amount of puerile abuse and petty mudslinging by so called 'experts' will sway my opinion any time soon.
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Resume is not the only thing you look at when deciding how great a fighter is. Anyone who has boxed before realises the subtle moves that duran could pull were mesmerising. Only someone who boxed themself or trains others can truly appreciate the skills duran had. One of the trainers at my boxing gym teaches durans style of fighting. Hes an old school trainer who highly rates duran. Plus duran isnt built like a pacquiao or mayweather where they can carry their weight up very effectively. There is no way you can overrate his win over SRL.

At 135 who would you honestly say is a favourite against him?

Lionel Rose · Jun 29, 2009

mughalmirza786 said: ↑

Resume is not the only thing you look at when deciding how great a fighter is. Anyone who has boxed before realises the subtle moves that duran could pull were mesmerising. Only someone who boxed themself or trains others can truly appreciate the skills duran had. One of the trainers at my boxing gym teaches durans style of fighting. Hes an old school trainer who highly rates duran. Plus duran isnt built like a pacquiao or mayweather where they can carry their weight up very effectively. There is no way you can overrate his win over SRL.

At 135 who would you honestly say is a favourite against him?
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I reckon Pernell Whitaker would've made him quit even earlier than Ray Leonard did.

Lionel Rose · Jun 29, 2009

.....Shane Mosley, too.....

ron u.k. · Jun 29, 2009

Well lets look at Hagler arguably one of the best 3 Middleweights ever,certainly top 5,damn some have him at no.1. Why do they think he didn't fully engage this blown up and "overrated" Lightweight and decided instead to fight conservatively against him? I would imagine Marvin knew a thing or two about the noble art,yet he was so much in awe of Duran's skills,that he fought with caution against him,yet went out and had a tear up against Hearns and blew him away. Think about it bozo's.

Lionel Rose · Jun 29, 2009

ron u.k. said: ↑

Well lets look at Hagler arguably one of the best 3 Middleweights ever,certainly top 5,damn some have him at no.1. Why do they think he didn't fully engage this blown up and "overrated" Lightweight and decided instead to fight conservatively against him? I would imagine Marvin knew a thing or two about the noble art,yet he was so much in awe of Duran's skills,that he fought with caution against him,yet went out and had a tear up against Hearns and blew him away. Think about it bozo's.
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Hagler inexplicably showed Duran far too much respect.
As I posted earlier, Hagler seemed bemused by his own performance years later, but contended that "Duran did nothing of note, and certainly never troubled me."
But then you'd not expect Duran to quit against an 'in your face' type boxer like Hagler.
However, against an out and out boxer, a la Leonard and / or 'Sweet Pea,' Duran would always be made to look a chump.
Even Kirkland Laing, described (rather disrespectfully, in my opinion) as a journeyman in the 'Four Kings' book,gave your hero a one sided boxing lesson.
I really think I rest my case.

IsaL · Jun 29, 2009

Lionel Rose said: ↑

I reckon Pernell Whitaker would've made him quit even earlier than Ray Leonard did.
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atsch

REEVO · Jun 29, 2009

bernie4366 said: ↑

As opposed to Duranimal, who wouldn't know what a book was if it slapped him the face :happy
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Look **** off you fat *****, your a minority of people on this thread that think Duran was overated, your spasticated opinion, top right corner logg off.:nut

Lionel Rose · Jun 29, 2009

Lionel Rose said: ↑

.....Shane Mosley, too.....
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.......not forgetting the TRUE ring legend that was......

JIMMY McLARNIN.

Ducked no one.

Fought legends over and above his best fighting weight.

AND BEAT THEM.

Lionel Rose · Jun 29, 2009

[url]http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/mclarnin.html[/url]

for any detractors out there who can actually read........

JL Fighter · Jun 29, 2009

watcha talkin about Willis?

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