Roberto Duran v the other great Welterweights

Before the fight leonard was also an atg fighter and naturally much bigger. Before the fight we didnt know duran could hurt ray that much or that he could outbrawl ray....Hindsight is a wonderful thing......

 

no my response would be the one straight out of leonards mouth in the playboy interview. "i knew that duran was patying and living high, so i wanted to get him in the ring asap." because he knew that duran would not be able to get in top shape.

the only fight where both fighters were in top fighting shape, was the first. that is the definition of prime. so regardless of whether you feel srl fought the correct fight or not we do have a prime for prime tangible result.

and there is a huge difference to be taken out of your game mentally which is what happened to ray, and bveing put into a situation where you do not have a fair opportunity to get into top physical shape based on the terms put infront of you.

leonard got beaten because of what happened in the ring. duran was beaten by the terms in the contract.

 

Leonard was considered an all time great fighter before the first Duran fight ? By who? Based on what, one win over Bentiez ?

 

Agreed with what you said, most of it anyway. But Duran used the same style? To a certain extent, yes. He was coming forward, but the comparison ends there. He wasn't imposing himself in the same manner. Fire and intensity. Obviously Duran would do different things inside the ring based on how Leonard fights him and vice versa. And he couldn't quite do the same things in their second fight as Leonard adjusted. It takes 'two to tangle' as they say. The two of them have to adapt with each other and what their each faced with.

But when Duran was having success in their rematch, which was in patches when Leonard was against the ropes, his handspeed and timing wasn't the same. IMO he wasn't catching Leonard with the same authoritive punches as he had done in their first counter. He looked sluggish.

I suppose I'm not 'outright' diagreeing with you as you did say Duran "was not at his best"

 

Leonard was an atg fighter before duran based on hindsight,and his skill set....

 

Benitez beat Duran at JrMW.....and didn't appear to be intimidated by Duran at all.

Why wouldn't he do the same at Welter?

Styles do make fights.

 

Duran was nowhere near his best for that fight. I know it's always the excuse with him, but it's the truth for anyone willing to see it. Duran was just inconsistent post-Leonard II due to an overall lack of motivation.

Duran has all the skills to beat Benitez, though it gets more difficult the higher the weight goes.

 

That's just skewing history to suit your argument. OK, I'll play along. Montreal Duran was the prime welterweight Duran. Duran of 5 months later was past his prime (you say). Fair enough. Let's go with that. The Leonard in Montreal wasn't the prime Leonard. He'd had one really big fight (Benitez), which in no way prepared him for Duran. Conversely, Duran had 3 fights with Dejesus, Buchanan, Palomino, Mamby, Fernandez, Kobayashi, Marcel, etc. Prime Leonard was 15 months after Montreal when he fought hearns. By that time he'd had 3 big fights (plus Kalule and Bonds) and had gained invaluable experience against Duran. Few welterweights ever would have beaten Leonard on September 16, 1981 and I don't think Duran is one of them.

 

Be careful underating Duran!

In the match against Leonard, where Duran quit, he went in totally unprepared! He lost a stack of weight, recovering from a slob state in just weeks, just to get in with Leonard. This was unprofessional, bloody sad, and is also well documented.

The guy was a legend. As are most of the other names raised in this thread.

 

you are right. Leonard has said many times that he wanted a quick rematch because duran would of been unprepared for it

 

vs Duran Peak for Peak:

Sugar Ray Robinson: Robbo, UD.

Emile Griffith: Griffith, close UD.

Thomas Hearns: Tommy always destroys him, a few rounds later maybe, but it's still an ultra-horrible matchup for Duran. KO5.

Mickey Walker: Walker, close UD.

Charley Burley: Duran, UD. An on song Burley will run it close.

Jack Britton: Duran, mid-late TKO.

Sugar Ray Leonard: Leonard, close UD (if Ray fights his own fight, he wins).

Henry Armstrong: Duran, late stoppage (Armstrong is better P4P, though).

Kid Gavilan: Duran, UD.

Barney Ross: Duran stops Barney, mid-rounds (so much as it pains me to say it).

Luis Rodriguez: Duran, close decision.

Carmen Basilo: Duran, late TKO. In a barnburner.

Joes Napoles: Duran, late TKO (probably cuts).

Wilfred Benitez: Duran, UD.

Pernell Whitaker: 50/50. Can't call.

 

I think that the Duran of the night he beat SRL could have beaten any of the great welters, excluding SRR.

 

Duran had trouble with boxers. He was terribly frustrated by Edwin Viruet at lightweight. He had difficult moments against Saoul Mamby. Enough with the Duran apologists. Leonard outboxed him in the second fight because he could. Bentiez easily defeated Duran at 154 again because he could. It was a fight Duran trained very hard for but it did not matter. Duran was in as good or better shape for the Bentiez fight as he was for Cuevas, Davey Moore or Hagler. He simply did not have the ability at the larger weights to defeat master boxers. No disgrace. Leonard and the welterweight Bentiez were two all time greats. However, no excuses either.

 

Duran's legs had gone by the time he fought Benitez(i agree that Benitez was simply the better 154 fighter).

he had become more like an undersized James Toney stylistically.only able to excel against certain styles.