Roberto Duran vs Arguello, Whitaker, Chavez, Castillo and Floyd at 135

part of studying boxing is not get impressed by bravado and more from history and styles.. Study the styles. Duran's foot positioning. Floyd would not have exploited his wide stance? Sure he would have.

 

Of course it matters Clownshoes, it's very pertinent in fact. Think about what you're saying, and you'll see how ridiculous, and frankly moronic it is for you to say. You're essentially saying, if you move up in weight first, it doesn't matter how old you are when the fight takes place. So, if LW fighter has been fighting for a decade already, and decides to move up in weight, and is let's say 31 when he decides to do this. He could fight at the weight for 3 years, and then face a fighter who's turned pro a few years back, became champion and is now squarely in his prime. You don't think it would matter that one fighter is 33, and moved up to the division, as opposed to somebody who is 25, who's fought in that division as the natural weight class? To you, being that the 33 moved into that division first, it doesn't matter how old he is, or what division he came from amirite? That is the idiocy I'm actually reading here. It's mindboggling you think any of that makes sense from a logical perspective. It UNQUESTIONABLY matters if one fighter is further past his best, and past his best division, when facing a prime ATG fighter in their natural division. To think that doesn't matter tells me you need to find another sport to follow.

 

We're talking the best version of Duran here, not the older, hit and miss duran of the later years. Can you imagine the Duran of Dejesus 3 losing to Floyd? Not a chance he would lose that fight. You still have no answer for how Castillo beat a May in his best division while in his prime? Castillo is a poor man's Duran. You keep talking styles by clearly have zero clue what you're talking about. Duran, as noted by trainers like Dundee, was a heel to toe fighter, they excel when they force their foes backwards with their positioning and footwork. As you probably know (I'm starting to think you have no clue) May loves to back up, and bait people in, and he even has a tendency to go back against the ropes. That would be absolute murder for Floyd to do that. Duran would pound on him relentlessly when Floyd did this. So tell me, with as active as we know Floyd was, and as active as Duran was at that weight, how on God's green earth is May going to get a points victory here?

 

clownshoes. oh god. I don't want to insult someone on a message board. I think you have enough issues to deal with. I comments speak for themselves, and they have nothing to do with boxing. Simply, Duran is overrated. If he was one of the greatest ever the weight jump still would not be enough so that he was versatile enough to overcome Benitez, who started at 140 himself. Leonard, and Hearns. That makes a great fighter. Beat the elite guys when you move up and prove how versatile you are. Change the style, don't fight one way and then if you are being beaten just accept that the rounds are being lost. He never turned a fight like that around. It was always he started well and it ended well, or he was beaten from the get go. And you think Floyd or Whitaker would let him dictate or throw them off with his wide stance, or let him fight on the inside? These guys are not Iran Barkley or Buchanan. Don't just beat guys you can beat or always have an edge over. He was a front runner, but he really did not beat guys who were elite and fast. It is proven. and because of this, there is no way we can say definitively that he could beat Whitaker or Mayweather.

 

excuses don't make a guy great. Saying he lost to elites because of this does not mean he is great. Then who did he beat and did his lightweight reign make him one of the best ever. And no way did it. You cannot make his opposition at lightweight elite. So what makes him this top 5 ATG? There has to be criteria in any list of greatness, whether President or Senator or boxer. Fighting for a decade? hearns fought for 14 years and challenged Hill who was fast and had a jab and was undefeated and 10 title defenses and Tommy won. Hearns is the underrated one here, and Duran overrated.

 

The best version of Duran never fought an elite guy Mr. Clownshoes. You don't listen. Yes I imagine Duran losing to Floyd. Floyd would not fight Duran on the inside. Poor mans Duran? Doesn't punch as hard, means a lot. A guy will go in there and try to fight him if he feels he cannot hurt him. Mayweather would not go against the ropes with Duran, but listen Leonard did and would move right out and counter off the angle. Mayweather could do that, probably not as well as Ray, but Floyd does not get hit. Guys like Hearns and Leonard liked to brawl more. I honestly think Duran would lost to Pernell and Floyd by decision and look foolish doing it. Shane? I don't know. Shane likes inside fighting more, but his speed would really bother Duran. Duran has a chance vs. Shane.

 

If you really cant see the difference in his the way he fought at 130 and 35 then there really isn't much more than needs to be said. It`s obvious you just don't want to see it.

 

Actually it is obvious you don't want to see that Duran never used versatility to beat a guy when the chips were down. And you don't see it. You don't understand that the elites he fought like it or not were at a little higher weights, weights he fought at when he fought at 135 and had tuneups at 154.. yes as early as 1978.. You are not seeing this and thinking if he was not at his full best somehow he has an excuse. But at 135 he does not have elites on his resume.

 

He doesn't grasp it. Good post though.

 

Good luck reposting the same drivel over and over again.

 

you too.

 

Prime Camacho would also have a good chance of beating Duran at lightweight.

 

May and Ray fought very little alike. I'm not even sure why that comparison was made. Ray brings different things to the table than May but they are both great. Point being, it's irrelevant since that fight was at a different division than we are talking about. Not only that, it's using a version on Duran different than here. As people keep pointing out to you, Duran isn't the same fighter. He lost a little speed, a little stamina with the added weight. Some weight was obviously going to come as he aged, but his was exacerbated by him always blowing up in between fights, so it made practical sense. That doesn't mean he was just as good. He was close, because mentally he gained knowledge he didn t have when he was in his physical prime, but it's not enough to offset him being past his physical prime and how that can impact you. It's one thing if you're constantly training and keeping the body healthy like you see some athletes do; it's another to have the lifestyle Duran had, and think you'll age the same. His lifestyle was good for his body, and yet, the reason he still was able to show those moments of greatness through his skill.

You asked before, why is he great or a top ATG, the above is why, he was able to beat or compete with fighters much younger than him. It was his skill and cagey he was even. Even when he was a shell of himself, you still saw the parry, the feigning, the headmovement, the counter punching. It's all there to see. You add that to beating an ATG, whom I consider the no.2 all time h2h ww ever, while you yourself started 2 division south of that a decade ago. That speaks of greatness to be able to pull that off. Not only that, but you're also at a deficit when it comes to strength, reach, height, weight, along with most physical measurables; how on earth doesn't that show the greatness of a fighter? You add beating Moore, Barkley, Palomino, Cuevas, good fight against Hagler, again all past your best, that's just icing on the cake.

I'm genuinely curious, since you think May's competition was so much better than Duran at LW, which wins are better so much better than Ken or Dejesus?

While we're at it, I do think Whitaker could give Duran a good fight. Basically 50/50, but that's because Whitaker is busier than May, and isn't as prone to the lulls that May was you. You didn't see Castillo force Him to the ropes? **** most when then pressure him get him there, so why wouldn't Duran?

 

as a matter of fact when Ray fought his fight, he won easily. And Floyd would never fight anyone's fight but his own. I think he would win from the get go. The fact Castillo did well, we because Floyd could feel the power. he would do what he has to so he wins. Duran never beat an elite fighter. And I think Floyd would use his counterpunching similar to Benitez to win the fight. Mayweather's wins in his career are better than Duran's period. Moore, Barlkey Palomino and Cuevas? Cuevas washed up 3 years after Hearns, Barkley lost to many guys around that, time,. Moore had 11 fights and dental surgery, and really he was not great. Carlos? He was from the McCoy gym in California, who had warriors and tough guys, but robotic guys who left themselves open. They were not taught jabs and technique much. The guys who gave Duran trouble were the elite guys like Hearns or Ray who had a lot of amateur experience.

A great fighter can move up in weight and compensate, and use versatility. Hearns vs. Hill etc. Spinks vs. Holmes. It happens. Duran never used it. He took guys who were not movers and beat them up and countered them. Duran push Floyd to the ropes? Duran was not and Edwin Rosario type puncher... As Edwin Viruet, who said Duran did not compare to Rosario's punching. Why do I mention this? Well because Duran is not going to blast Floyd out, and Duran never beat a prime skilled elite.
Duran was rarely a shell of himself. He knew when he could win and when he couldn't and his body movements showed it at times. I think he knew he could not beat a Hearns.. And after a few rounds of Wilfred, he knew there also. He was a smart guy. Give him a guy with a weakness and something to exploit and Duran would exploit it, but give him an elite with speed who could exploit Duran, and Duran would not win many rounds, and that happened enough. And always vs. elites.

 

Sugar Ray Leonard says hello. Are you so obnoxious you cannot even acknowledge this win?

Yeah a guy who wins one of two 147 straps and defends it 7 times before losing to upcoming ATG Benitez is total crap. Heck he must be if Duran beat him. Go and actually watch him fight

The guys who gave Duran trouble were younger prime to peak ATG's 2, 3 and 4 weight divisions above Duran's peak weight. Who woulda thunk?

Let me get this straight, as i can't quite get my head around it. You are comparing Hill to SRL, Benitez and Hagler? You are pointing to Hearns superiority over Duran and Duran's shortcomings via Hearns beating Hill and Duran not being able to beat SRL (only in the rematch mind you!), Benitez and Hagler. In what world is this comparable?

And Spinks - Holmes? How is a way over the hill Holmes comparable to prime SRL, Benitez and Hagler? Lets not even mention Holmes should have got the decision in the rematch.

After getting stopped by Greg Page Scott LeDoux said Page hit harder than George Foreman. Do you agree with this?

Rosario is quite possibly the hardest hitting 135 ever. Duran was a big puncher at 135, a VERY big puncher.

*Elites way bigger, younger, closer to peak.

Even then he beat one of them in one of the greatest boxing achievements in history. Lets pretend that didn't happen tho.

SRL W15 UD Whitaker 147
SRL W15 UD Whitaker 147
Benitez W15 UD Whitaker 154
Hagler TKO6 Whitaker 160
Hearns KO5 Whitaker 154
SRL W12 UD Whitaker 160