Roberto Duran vs. Pernell Whitaker at 135

I honestly can't see anyone at 135 beating Whitaker. He takes the decision.

 

Pea would beat a younger lightweight Duran, but when Duran peaked round about De Jesus III he was damn near unbeatable. Pea would've beat a younger more reckless Duran but the refined version of Duran would've been a hard ask for Pea.

 

Pernell was certainly a frustrating ghost of a boxer, probably more so because he usually was tantalizingly just in front of his opponent, standing off is not an option, of course the Modus Operandi of Manos de Piedra was quite the opposite in the extreme, i know he had to Track-to-Wack such as Vireut Bizzaro and Lampkin, he could lose some interest if the opponent did all they could not to engage, and he was not being threatened on the scorecards...but he could also fire up the demonic engine late if the opponent thought he had achived a moral victory in Mucking him about, as Lampkin found out, Roberto had still not cooled his jets at post fight interview time...of course for Pernell he could not and i think would not allow any mental drift, a 15 rounds distance would be much more in Roberto's favour, Over 12 he would probably have some early catch-up to overcome, but think he could do it, when i recall how Azumah Nelson moved up and chased Pernell about the ring for the entire fight, but couldnt corner him long enough to inflict anything protracted or meaningful...but at Lightweight Azumah was not in the same Ballpark...as the one with the Dark Mane and the Black pit eyes, being
Windows to the soul...and a gateway to a fistic hell to be unleashed...
..No Country for Fred Astaire impersonators i'm afraid...D-U-R-A-N-...

 

Nice post Area 53. You said what needed to be said. I would like to add on your post if that is possible.

The problem for Pernell is that he does not not hit hard enough to stop Duran. I think he has to stop Duran to win because Duran from the 2nd DeJesus fight would be too much for him. That Duran comes in looking to engage and hurt. Besides the early left hook Duran pretty much tore through a near hall-of-famer in DeJesus.

The only time I remember Duran in with a Southpaw was him against the greatest southpaw of all-time Hagler. Hagler recently said that Duran was the greatest fighter he ever faced and that Duran kept countering him with right hands. Pernell is going to have to fight defensive and get very SERIOUS much more than he would like or is used to.

This will throw him off his rhythm and force him to fight at Durans pace. I think that sooner or later Duran will force him to exchange and Pernell will have to do his best to fight Duran off. Pernell will have his moments were he looks like the great fighter we know but at-the-end-of-the-day Duran will have too much skill, offense, and determination to be denied.

I think the boxing verison of Duran in "III" will be a problem for Whitaker as well because Duran is still very fast and just as ellusive as Whitaker but better because his defense put him in offensive position.

Geeez, Duran was good!

 

I say Duran but it would be far from easy. Whitaker was a master boxer but I see the 1978 'Hands of Stone' pulling out a close points verdict in a thriller.

 

Duran could match Whitaker`s speed and he had a non stop attack as a lightweight. He was a force of nature. Sure Pernell could make anyone miss and Duran would miss plenty but Whitaker is gonna have trouble hitting Duran as well.

I believe Duran would score a knockdown or two on his way to a clear decison. I just don`t think Pea has enough pop to bother Duran who had blazing speed in his prime. He`s not gonna give Whitaker the time or room to ever get comfortable.

 

Two of my favourite fighters of all time.

Are we talking over 12 or 15 rounds here? Easy to forget that Duran settled a lot of his championship fights at 135 lb in the final stages over the longer distance; Buchanan, Bizzarro, Ortiz, Lampkin and Fernandez all swept aside between rounds 13 and 15.

Over the longer course, I think his chances improve. Whitaker was a superb boxer in terms of what he did conventionally, but he also had that little bit of unorthodoxy about him, and for me that makes it a tough, tough ask for any Lightweight to figure out in just 12 rounds, Duran included. I believe Duran has the edge in stamina (nothing wrong with Pernell in this department, but still an edge to Roberto all the same) and he showed eventually against De Jesus that he could adapt and make adjustments, so the longer this fight goes, the better for him.

Personally, I'd make Whitaker a narrow favourite. As much as I love Duran, I do feel that he sometimes gets too much of a pass for his struggles against slick, defensively clever boxers (De Jesus I and II, Leonard II, Benitez, Laing etc). Now before any of those really die-hard Duran fans get at me, let me stress - I'm well aware that in some cases here he wasn't at his peak weight / fitness or whatever, and of course he still had some excellent wins against those kind of fighters. But I'm not going to totally ignore his poor results / showings against some of these guys because, regardless of circumstances, I still feel that they often highlighted little flaws which were always there in Duran's game - flaws which Whitaker had the right style to take advantage of.

Duran came out too aggressively early on against De Jesus two times over (he dominated him third time out, in fairness) and found himself walking on to all sorts of jabs and counters. He dropped a clear decision to Esteban in their first fight and for me their second one was still very much in the balance when Duran got the KO (I had Duran a point ahead, but De Jesus had enjoyed a very good 10th round immediately before).

De Jesus ended up fighting on Duran's terms eventually and paid the price. You can argue all day that Duran MADE him fight on those terms, and I agree, but it took him a while to completely turn the tide. Whitaker is a better inside fighter than given credit for, but even if he holds his own in those exchanges he simply won't let Duran dictate like that the way De Jesus eventually did. Whitaker's got a much better ring IQ and defence than De Jesus so I can see him maintaining the game plan and style for longer - long enough to get a win.

Duran over eager at the start, playing in to Whitaker's hands and letting Pernell build an early lead. Duran gets on top in the middle stages, but Pernell had great skills of adaptation as well and I can see him holding on, while tired at the end, to win a close decision over 12 rounds.

Over 15, it may be a different story. Pick 'em over that distance. But based on styles I think Pernell has a small edge here more often than not.

If I could make any fantasy fight happen at 135, it'd be this one.

 

It is always 15 rounds.

Duran was slicker than Pernell IMO. I would say that slick fighters had problems with Duran from the begining. Buchanan, DeJesus (Duran trounced him in that second fight, but I may need to rewatch the fight) Viruet, and Leonard. When he lost to Leonard he was down by like a round, even though he was no where near on his game.

Until I see a fight where Pernell stood inside with a fighter on Duran's level and traded and came out top I would have to say that if Pernell wants to not get seriously hurt, he should stick and move and that is all.

In the first DeJesus fight Duran was working his way back into the fight and lose a close match despite being dropped in a 10 rounder.

 

Disagree with you when it comes to your view on a) how easily Duran supposedly won the second De Jesus fight, and b) how far behind he was against Leonard second time out. Duran never really got going in that one, for me, and I thought he was trailing by at least three after 7 rounds. But I guess they're minor quibbles.

Of course Whitaker never took care of business up close or on the inside against a fighter as good in those areas as Duran, but the same applies in reverse, as it often does in these hypothetical discussions; Duran never faced any opponent, certainly below Welter, with the same hand speed, defence and jab as Sweet Pea.

Duran may have been working his way back in to the first De Jesus fight, but the fact is he still lost. Whitaker never did at 135 (obviously I'm not counting the blatant robbery against Ramirez in Paris) and Duran struggled with De Jesus again after that, too. He'd need to adapt quicker than that so solve the Whitaker puzzle in a one-off fight, for me.

Got no issue with anyone picking Duran, of course, but given his fights against De Jesus, Laing, Leonard (II), Benitez etc (and I'm sorry, I'm not going to write them off or make excuses for them all, as Duran was often nowhere near as far off his peak for them as some try to claim) I do believe there's more of a blueprint on how to beat Duran at 135 than there is on how to beat Whitaker.

But anyway, that's just me. Seems I'm in the minority!

 

I have to go with this. While neither man ever defeated someone of the other's caliber at that class, Duran was at least bested once by Estaban Dejesus. Whitaker was never beaten legitimately by anyone and seemed virtually untouchable.

 

I've probably said Duran in the past ..... but it's Whitaker by decision.

 

88Chris05,

In the second fight with Duran. Duran dropped DeJesus in the 7th after pouring it on in the previous rounds. After that he simply beat on DeJesus until he colapsed from the beating and exshaustion in the middle of the 11th. The fight was actually getting boring because DeJesus had no answer and could not box or brawl with Duran. It is just round after round of pure firey Duran. Despite the early flash, Duran got right back up and beat the crap out of Esteban. (But, like I said, I will rewatch the film to make sure)

I would say the Duran slick opponents at 135 were much better than the pressure fighter Whitaker faced at the same weight. If we go higher the Leonard fights prove that Duran could handle a combination of superior speed, and probably power.

I have no problem with your pick. I am enjoying the decusion. Thanks.