Roberto Durans Best Performance

While the Leonard performance was great on a historic level, I'm going to have to say DeJesus III. I think that was the exact moment in time where Duran was at his absolute best.

 

Palomino and De Jesus 3

 

Duran vs Leonard No. 1 is the most famous, so maybe it is tops
too.

Duran KNEW he could win, Leonard only THOUGHT he could win.

 

The Leonard Hearns fight showed that Hearns could be hurt and worn down if you were patient enough and got inside of Hearns comfort zone.
......Leonard did it by moving laterally and then in...inside of Hearns reach.....

.....Duran would come in angling and wrestle and tie up Hearns on the inside
......Duran was a nasty mother on the inside, he'd hurt Hearns on illegal tactics alone.

Quite frankly, Hearns was skinny and frail at 147 lbs. I really dont like his chances against anybody who was skilled, had a good chin, and could work inside and too the body.
I even said this years before and was ridiculed by alot of posters around here, but I'd favor the Welterweight version of JC Chavez who drew with Pernell Whitaker against the 147 lbs version of
Tommy Hearns!

Believe me, I have no disrespect for the Hitman Thomas Hearns.
Chin aside, he was the most complete offensive boxer/assasin that
I've seen in my almost 30 years of watching the sport.

If Hearns had a better chin and better stamina, I'd probably rate him #1 P4P ever!
.....but I just dont think his body would withstand against a skilled inside destroyer with a great chin at 147 lbs....JC Chavez is that and certainly Roberto Duran is that at 147 lbs!

 

Top 4:

1. De Jesus III
2. Leonard I
3. Barkley
4. Cuevas

 

I agree with a lot of what you say divac,but i think tommy was genuinely truely great at 147,his performance against leonard showed he could definately hang with an all time great who had a great chin and who could punch. He also demonstrated great stamina against a great opponent there.
With the scenario you envisage of duran smothering hearns and working inside,how do you see duran slipping that jab? The speed and power of the hearns jab is what created the victory in 84,i appreciate that 80 duran is much quicker at slipping and countering and making a fighter pay but what duran fight gives you the opinion he could rough up consistently a fighter of the size,power,skill and calibre of hearns and then drown him in the later rounds? Duran had a totally different style ,technique and size to ray leonard as you know.
Finally,regarding hearns and jc chavez,im sorry but i see a brutal and early ko versus the tiny and relatively slow chavez,not in a million years and by any strategy do i see chavez ever even lasting the distance against hearns. Chavez couldnt get past de la hoyas jab,size and long punches,hearns is de la hoya X 1000% with much greater size,power and speed along with having two great hands...

 

Spot on, Hearns is Duran's worst nightmare at 147, 154, wherever.

 

Just like Hagler is Hearns worst nightmare, whatever weight Hagler chose to knock his head off at... eh, JT? Don't give me a BS lecture about Hagler and weights either.

 

I do think JT that at 147 its not like the fight at 154. Im trying to figure out how a 147 fight goes but i havent found a conclusion yet.
I definately think hearns is durans worst and hardest matchup at 147 stylistically,much worse than robinson. I dont see duran ever beating hearns at 154,he didnt have the mobility at that weight.

 

I could see hearns beating hagler over 12 in an immediate rematch or in 86/87. I stiil feel he had the skills to beat hagler in 85,marvin was just extraordinary that night and fought in a very unusual manner.

 

I've explained my stance on Duran!

Hearns imo just did'nt have the strenghth of the stamina to have been able to hold off a Duran with the condition and motivation he had in his fight with Leonard in Montreal.
Like I said before, we're talking about two totally different Duran's in comparing that Duran to the Duran that fought past 147 lbs!

.....as for Chavez, certainly Chavez best weight was'nt 147 lbs, but imo it was'nt Hearns best weight either.

You make a poor example in relating Chavez' attempt vs DLH and parralleling it to how a Chavez fight with Hearns would turn out.
That Chavez was far from at his best.....in fact, he was very well on the downside of his career.

The Chavez who fought Whitaker at 147 lbs was an undefeated fighter with great stamina great infighting skills, and who could take a mean shot.
......that Chavez was certainly capable of pounding Hearns skinny frail body and set him up for a late round KO scenario.
.....would it be easy? Certainly not, but believe me, Chavez was'nt going to be pasted as a much lesser skilled Cuevas was.

Certainly there were Welters that could have beat the Chavez who drew with Pernell Whitaker, but imo he would have been a hard beat for any Welter.

Hearns lack of physical strenghth and stamina at 147 lbs convinces me that Chavez had a legit shot at taking him.
.....yes, Stamina.....Hearns was wilting badly down the stretch against Leonard, and that is what led to his downfall.

Infighting, bodypunching, stamina, and a great chin, get it done vs Hearns at 147 lbs.....Duran and Chavez both had that plus they did all of that at a high skill level!

 

ok,divac,we wil have to agree to disagree. While i can definately see duran being able to do someting with hearns at 147,i totally fail to see what chavez can do and a blowout is on the cards. (i was a big chavez fan and saw many of his fights.)
I disagree that hearns had no stamina at 147,leonard remarked that tommy surprised him with the amount of stamina he had,and i think it was leonards punching,skill,will and speed which did for tommy.
I really do think that hearns was the business at 147,and head to head could beat anyone. You cant be weak and have no stamina then give peak ray leonard the fight of his life,impossible.
I would also state that at which weight was hearns particularly known as physically very strong? He was mainly famous for his speed,power ,size and boxing ability. Remember hearns could easily outbox chavez or almost anyone else for that matter.

 

The way I see it, Leonard was'nt quite as adept at getting inside a boxers punching reach and working inside and to the body.
....Leonard was a complete fighter, and he could certainly do that, but he was not as refined at those infighting intracacies like Duran and Chavez.

......Leonard did'nt beat Hearns by using his own strenghths (boxing) he had to revert to getting down and nasty......lulling and timing Hearns with a big shot and then hurting him so that he then could close the distance and get inside his reach to work inside of Hearns comfort zone.

As long as Leonard was moving laterally and trying to outbox and outmanuever Hearns, he was getting outboxed and rather handily.......its when he took the risks to get inside that he found himself hurting Hearns in the process....
.....yes, risks that cost Leonard to take some punishment in the process, but risks that paid off for him at the end because Hearns was'nt able to take the same punishment that Leonard was recieving.

My opinion comes from the belief that both Duran and even Chavez would be able to risk and take some punishment in order to get inside and dish their own punishment that Hearns would not be able to take as well as Duran and Chavez would recieve.

In not giving Chavez a chance vs Hearns, I think you're underestimating his not only his ability to take punishment.....but his defense was highly underrated.
Hearns is not a defensive type fighter, and he could definitely be hit.....


......as I said before, its certainly not an easy fight for either Duran or Chavez, but I could definitely see both wearing down Hearns over the long haul of a fight and stopping Hearns late.

Duran of course I would definitely see doing it vs Hearns, but I could also see the undefeated version of Chavez doing it as well.

 

The thing is divac,any fighter that wanted to battle inside with tommy had to get by the super fast jab and eat some serious leather whilst also taking risks by being in the firing line.
Now roberto proved he could hang with much taller bigger men and big punchers like hagler,barkley etc,chavez proved his chin against guys his own size but never against guys the size of hearns. He never met anyone remotely the size,speed,height and power of hearns. At least we can say duran fought much bigger guys like leonard,hagler,barkley,moore etc. Chavez has never convinced me he could live further than 140,de la hoya trounced him twice at 140,and i think norris would have annihilated chavez as well. Some rare fighters have the skills to fight much bigger men,chavez was an atg but didnt have the skills to beat much bigger men than himself,never mind the fastest and hardest hitting 147 er of them all. Being patient and slowly choopping down (just.) meldrick taylor is a whole universe away from beating hearns at 147.
Randall also gave chavez hell over two fights at 140 and knocked him down briefly and hes no hitman.
Chavez is not in robertos league,especially at the higher divisions. I reckon hearns could beat chavez with just the jab and the threat of the right,outbox the living daylights out of him,but tommy being tommy he would go for the ko and get it. The stare down would be hilarious in terms of the size disparity. Chavez' reach around 65,tommy 78! 7 inches in height and loads of natural weight disparity. When did a puncher like chavez at 147 ever trouble hearns?

 

Broken hand and massaged legs

Not to forget Foreman's Marciano's worst nightmare, and no BS lecture about him being so different to Frazier to matter

:smoke