I think Calzaghe wins but working out when prime Calzaghe was is a bit tricky. By the time he fought Lacy he'd spent so long fighting rubbish and his hands were damaged that he didn't have the power he used to. Earlier Calzaghe may have been the more complete fighter in that sense but clearly Reid wasn't lost against him. I also think we do Froch a disservice by dismissing him as purely an iron-jawed slugger. He could box well enough to convincingly beat the likes of Kessler and Abraham; he needed the stoppage against Taylor but the fight was pretty close. I think Calzaghe wins around the 116-112 mark but it's not beyond the realms of fantasy that Froch stops him.
It's a good point about prime calzaghe. Joe had a great career, deserves respect etc but he also had a very carefully managed one which may have maximised his time at the top and helped create that great record, but does provide plenty of room for scepticism about his final place in the atg lists.Anyway I like your scorecard and think joe wins this 7 or 8 times out of 10 .
I see your point but he beat a shell of the former Kessler and lost a close fight to a shopworn Kessler before that. Also lost to Dirrell. Was losing comfortably to a shopworn Taylor. I’m not trying to diminish his achievements but he could be outboxed and you didn’t need to be elite to do it. I see your point re: Calzaghe and prime but where he had his best results came much later than the Reid fight, even if he wasn’t necessarily prime physically. Likewise he was a mess going into that fight, got to look at the context. If the Calzaghe that fought Reid was in the ring with Froch then it’d be a closer fight because it’d have been a war but I’d still bet on Calzaghe points. Calzaghe of Lacy onwards wins comfortably.
'You didn't need to be elite to do it.' Well, in a career like his he was 'comfortably' outboxed once for me, and that against Ward who is possibly the best at 168 ever. He lost a tough, close fight first time to Kessler, and was losing narrowly against Taylor. If these aren't at the elite end of the division then who was? Bute? Froch battered him. Abraham? Froch won every round. I think if we try to pick holes in Froch's CV then it's only fair to do it for Calzaghe: Lacy; a proven flash in the pan who ended up useless. Eubank; old and well past his best. Hopkins; a forty-something middleweight who was past his best and possibly beat Joe anyway. Jones; completely and utterly embarrassingly shot - even Joe admitted this. Giminez; about a thousand years old. Ashira/Mkrtchyan/Salem/Pudwill/McIntyre/Sobot/Manfredo; rubbish.
Reid was in his pomp when he fought Calzaghe in a very very close fight.... where there should have been a rematch. By the time he fought Froch, Reid was past it and couldn't pull the trigger like he once could....
Froch wasn’t on Calzaghe’s level. Since when is Taylor an elite SMW or Abraham. Calzaghe comfortably beat a better version of Kessler than Froch lost to. That shows the levels. But I think we are on the same page re: outcome so this is a bit of a pointless debate. Froch could box but I don’t think that matters as he was outboxed by lesser boxers than Calzaghe. That’s my point. I’m not trying to undermine his achievements. I’d have bet my house on Calzaghe of the Kessler fight versus any version of Froch.
i hope you didnt listrn to wicky snd putvthe house on him to beat pac going to bully him to big to strong lol
