Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

Gil Turner is horrendously underrated. Look at W's for him, very impressive from welter to middle.

 

It's Flea Man ?

 

:good

That was a helluva fight too (with Kid).

 

SRR was a better fighter. More durable.

 

Looking for articles on blogs and AOL isn't about to boost your credibility

Paz was a hyped up fight, it wasn't nearly a top10 opponent. I'm not the only 1 laughing at that idea on this thread, Paz didn't achieve much at 168, the other men I listed have done far more at the weight Jones fought them at

The only reasoning you've given for Robinson's been better is 'he had more fights and thus has more wins', no **** sherlock, but how about quality versus quantity?

How about you analyse the top names on each fighters record. Let's guess you don't know much about the best fighters on either man's record, do some research on both and compare them

Also as for I'm being overly critical of Robinson losing past his best, well Jones didn't pick up a legit loss until he was 35. Robinson picked up 4 losses before he was 35

Well I think you're guessing how the fight went because I don't remember anything like that. I remember an aggressive Hopkins throwing allot of leather, I'd guess 60-90 punches a round with a high connect percentage. Mercado threw bombs too but didn't land much

Both fighters hurt each other, Hopkins kds were what cost him points but Hopkins also had Mercado down a couple of times but they weren't counted.

Certainly not a fight I'd describe as a 'scrappy fight', my take after watching it 3years ago:

 

Malinga was more difficult to time and hit than Fullmer. I don't really see how this can be debatable.

I didn't say Fullmer was poor, I said he was mediocre. There were thousands over thousands of fighters in history who had as much class and skill as him, he's very-very far from being an ATG. Mediocre is the right word to describe him.

 

I still laugh every time I accidentally stumble upon an old thread at CBZ forum where the majority picked Gene Fullmer to beat B-Hop in a fantasy match. One of the worst examples of old-timers-worshiping, and I've seen a lot of them, absolutely hilarious.

 

Robinson is overrated. He is made into some kind unbeatable force today when none of his fans have ever seen footage of him at WW, where he was considered to be at his best.

Old timers are generally overrated. Roy in his prime was toying with guys and beat 2 ATG with ease, and beat one of them with a broken hand.

Robinson supposedly has the better resume, legacy and a longer prime against overall better opponents but I doubt he was on the level Jones in comparison to his peers.

 

There is footage of him at WW.

 

how many complete Robinson WW fights have you seen?

 

You changed the grounds of the argument, at first saying there was no footage and now asking for complete fights.

The answer is probably none. However there is possibly in toto 20-30 minutes of Ray at 147 floating around which combined with the ample footage of him at middle is more than enough to make a judgment call.

 

So Spider Webb was rubbish then? As mediocre Fullmer beat him comfortably?

How anyone can be 'mediocre' with Fullmer's level of success I don't know, regardless of skillset or style.

 

I'm not sure he'd be as low as 100th, but seeing as I'd probably describe the top 20 or 30 middleweights, perhaps more, unhesistantly as "GREAT" fighters, the rest of the top 100 would all be good or very good, rather than mediocre. Like you say, mediocre is average. To be among the top 100 (or top 60, 70 more likely, imo) at middleweight ALL-TIME
would require more than averageness/mediocrity.
I guess it's a matter of semantics.

Where would you expect Dick Tiger to rank at middleweight ?

 

Fullmer outboxed Webb? He didn't (both the AP and the UPI had it much closer than the officials). He outworked him to the body. The same way he had done in the 1st fight, in a rugged brawl. Webb wasn't mobile or clever enough to avoid Fullmer's primitive walking forward behind a block, pushing Webb into the ropes and pounding him to the body while there.

The same Webb less than 3 months after their 2nd bout barely won split decision over unranked Calhoun, the verdict was loudly booed by the spectators. Calhoun knocked Webb down in the 2nd round and had him glassy-eyed in the 7th from a succession of rights to the jaw.

So, the answer to your question is yes, Webb wasn't that good at that point.

 

Mediocre skills are just that - nothing special. He walked into Robinson's hook while keeping his hands at chest-level. When you have no slipping/leaning skills, no defensive footwork (angles, side-stepping, backing-away) and irregular parrying skills, and you are throwing punches in upward fashion, nearly from your waist, you should have been expecting trouble. That's some obvious lack of skills, both defensive and offensive. Some are calling his change of tactics vs Dick Tiger clever, I call that a coercive measure, he knew he couldn't bull Tiger, so he ran away most of the time.