Robinson vs. Jones: Who's better?

This thread has been baffling and makes me want to quit ESB, indefinitely.

 

Its a really odd thread. I'd like to think that Power Puncher is playing devils advocate. For his sake.

 

Fullmer beat way too many good boxers to be called mediocre.

 

:deal

 

1. He's on film for me to judge whether he's mediocre or not, even without looking at his record.

2. He beat a lot of smaller fighters, some by controversial decisions or outright robberies.

 

I can see him on film being very competitive with Dick Tiger, who is both good and big. He also beat Robinson, who was past his prime but still a very good boxer. He was a tough fight for some very good fighters. There's no way he was a mediocre pressure fighter. He was a formidable pressure fighter.

 

http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/cbzf...7256-10-greatest-middleweight-champions/page2
Not just my opinion that he was mediocre.

 

Anyway you look at it...it's gotta be Sugar Ray Robinson...

 

I see one other postor there calling him "mediocre". And at least one protesting it. Besides, the argument seems to be triggered by some crappy all-time middleweight list, so I'd allowed for context.

He's wasn't a mediocre pressure fighter. He was competitive against Dick Tiger with his pressure style. Dick Tiger was good, no ?
Tiger's perhaps the last person a fighter would do well against with a muscling pressure style if that fighter was mediocre.

 

There were two posters who agreed that he was mediocre, and the one who defended him came up with a list of his best opponents that was refuted for the most part. Dick Tiger wasn't exactly a master boxer, if that's what you trying to imply. Still Fulmer lost two out of three, not being competitive.

 

Dick Tiger was a very good fighter, many say he was a great fighter.
Fullmer, who you call a "mediocre pressure fighter", was competitive with Tiger and arguably won the second fight. The point that Tiger "wasn't exactly a master boxer" suggests that either a. Fullmer's pressure fighting worked quite well against another physical fighter who is arguably an ATG , or b. Fullmer used some boxing ability to frustrate Tiger.

If Fullmer was mediocre you could come up with that list of opponents and explain how many completely schooled him or won shut-outs or KOs against him, considering they were the best fighters in the world at the time. But the only thing people can say is that he won a few dodgy decisions and fouled a lot. Most of those fights were close. Some of them were fair wins for Fullmer. Rarely did those guys ever hurt Fullmer.

Fullmer must have been pretty good.

 

His problem and the issue isn't even regarding Fullmer, It's Robinson. And it's obvious every time he posts about him. Never fails.

 

Fullmer's boxing skills were mediocre. Both defensive and offensive skills, footwork, generalship, feinting, it's either non-existing or at a very primitive level that you can see even club fighters display. If you think otherwise, I'm afraid can't help it. Not gonna waste my time.

 

Robinson of course take resume and p4p accomplishment.

As for "overall skills"it depends on how you define that. If it just means how good the fighter was at his best, I think Roy has a very good argument. Against anyone, really.

We have so little prime footage of Robinson that it's hard to say for sure, though. But I don't think I've ever seen a fighter as superior as Jones was at his peak. Whatever one thinks of his style and his career choices, any unbiased and informed mind would have see some truth in that statement.

 

This is true.

But it's also more true for Robinson than most care to admit. Cocoa Kid and Burley would probably have been more dangerous opponents than anyone he faced bar Gavilan.

Also, had Robinson been a more modern fighter I'd bet you anything that his wins over Gavilan would be partly discredited by the fact that the Kid only was 22 and 23 when they were fought (compare the excuses made for Hopkins). Seeing how they also seem to have been close and hard fought I could easily see quite many posters saying Gavilan would have won a peak for peak match-up.