Robinson vs these fighters

Hmmm, tough to call of course. Robinson was inconsistent at 160 but that was largely after his premature retirement. If we're talking about the best middleweight version of SRR, which is the pre-retirement Robinson that beat LaMotta in 51, I think he probably beats the lot. The only guys I'd be hedging a little bit with are Monzon and Jones, just because we never saw Monzon lose at MW in the 70s and Jones would be a very tough ask with his speed, even against Sugar Ray.

Hagler:
Terrific fight but I think Robinson just has an extra string to his bow. I actually wonder whether Robinson could stop Marvin. Sounds crazy to say but he managed to legitimately stop LaMotta...

Monzon:
I figure Monzon would try to counter Robinson and would definitely have his successes but Robinson's movement at that point was outstanding and he had the speed to outbox Carlos.

Jones:
Maybe the toughest fight here. I think Robinson would be meeting his match in natural ability. Jones would also be naturally bigger and was probably quicker too at the weight. Robinson had more solid fundamentals but would he be able to expose Jones's flaws? Did Jones have significant flaws at that weight to expose? Very tough call but I can see Jones outpointing Robinson by virtue of his unorthodoxy and speed and the fact he has the power to trouble Ray too.

Toney:
Would love to see this. A fighter in Lights Out who was from the modern era but who is often thought of as old school against a fighter who practically invented the modern era. I figure Toney gives SRR plenty to think about early on but that Ray's more constant output sees him taking a clear decision.

McClellan:
It would be crazy to think that the G-man wouldn't be a danger to Robinson. Anyone with that much power would be a danger to anyone in middleweight history. Having said that I see Robinson riding out the first couple of rounds and flattening Mclellan inside six. Bad matchup.

Ketchel:
One of the two or three greatest punchers in middleweight history, power-wise Ketchel would have the edge. But Robinson was fundamentally better in every other way. Ketchel in my view is a fighter whose standing benefits from when he fought. H2H though, he end up knocked out by SRR sooner or later.

Fitsimmons:
Another tremendous threat because of his power. But I can't see Robinson being too careless. I think he bides his time and then wears Fitzsimmons down before stopping him.

 

Undecided on Ketchel/Fitzsimmons
He beats Toney/McClellan
Loses to HOPKINS RJJ Hagler & Monzon

 

Given that Robinson struggled with Fullmer's awkward style, it's tempting to pick Monzon. Of course it's hard to say how much of his struggle with Fullmer is chalked up to him being past his prime.

As for Fitzsimmons and Ketchel, that's tough. More and more lately I've been reluctant to predict outcomes of fights where one guy fought in the standardized era of 15 round fights and where the other fought before that point, with bout of variable length (i.e. 6 round news paper decision bouts, 20 round bouts, etc.). I think it's harder to compare guys across those eras.

I can definitely see Robinson blitzing either guy, honestly. This isn't old-timer bashing. I'm from Grand Rapids, so I have every incentive to pick Ketchel, but SRR wasn't the type of pawing, relatively stationary target Ketchel was accustomed to facing. Similarly, I think someone as fast and intelligent as Robinson was miles ahead of the guys Fitz sparked, although Fitz's ring iq could definitely allow him to land something big. And he hit hard enough to vaporize even a chin as good as Ray's

 

And YOU think I am delusional? Wow!.

 

I don’t think...I know lol! But at least we are keeping good company

 

It's entirely possible one or two might beat him but at his 160 very best (52 or earlier) in one off affairs i like his chances in all of these. I think a spoiling type style along the line of Hopkins might give him something to have to work around. Monzon and his height and reach would be quite awkward. Jones with his electric talent would be tough but i think Ray matches up well with him. I wouldn't favor anyone over him at his best from 147-160 however.

 

Love this

 

If Benn could beat G-man at super middle then Ray would have toyed with him, Toney couldn`t cut the ring off.

 

Styles mate, your logic doesn't work, its well proven

 

Toney would have been more trouble than G-man, he was so easy to hit v Benn, it was odd.

 

Ray would go about 5-2 with these guys, and he could go 4-3, Hagler, Monzon ,or Fitz . Maybe Ketchel but there's a lotta if's there

 

I understand that mythical match ups are fun and a huge part of being a fan, but when comparing the newer greats against the old greats it seems like nobody takes same day weigh-ins and 15 round fights into consideration. To me, those are two significant dynamics that change everything.
Just picture Jones, a biggish middleweight but still not in his prime, having to weigh in at 160 on the day of the fight...and then be prepared to go 15 rounds with the man who stopped Lamotta?
Or now picture SRR being given an additional day to add some weight and rehydrate, knowing he’d only have to go 12 rounds at most.