Robinson Was Dropped 10 Times In His Career!!

wow

im just posting in this thread because i cant believe it exists

 

You can assess what styles Mayweather would have trouble with by watching his fights closely. Castillo arguably won their first fight behind his educated pressure. Say what you want about the injury, but in the second fight, Castillo won about 5 rounds. Again, how did he accomplish this? By educated technical pressure. Based on this, we can assume that technical pressure gives Floyd problems at 135 and up. Guys like Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran (who wasn't a typical pressure fighter, but rather a dynamic swarmer/mauler), and Miguel Cotto can give him trouble stylistically because they're all better than Castillo.

In his fight with Judah, Mayweather shows a vulnerability to quicker boxers on the outside. Judah's handspeed and movement was giving Floyd problems and we saw him land clean on many occasions. Floyd was able to adjust, which he deserves credit for. However, Judah is known to fade and susceptible to any kind of pressure. Based on the weaknesses shown by Mayweather through rounds 1 and 4, it's accurate to say Robinson, Leonard, Hearns, Camacho, Curry, and Whitaker would have exploited this even more. Judah's success as a southpaw makes me have little doubt that Whitaker would have gotten the job done. Especially when you factor in the most consistent punch between the two: his right jab, as well as his proven mastery against pressure. Duilio Loi should be favored, or put an even money with Floyd as well, because of his southpaw stance, tactical excellence, great defense, and pressuring style. Not a speedster, but he had tools to give Mayweather hell.

De La Hoya exploited some vulnerabilities in Floyd as well. Every time he actively pursued Floyd behind a long, powerful jab, Floyd retreated into the ropes and went into a defensive shell, looking to counter. He won the fight about 8-4 or 7-5, but it was hardly dominating. De La Hoya's height and ability to pick off punches made it hard for Floyd. Based on this, it's fair to say that the Floyd of 147 and 154 (whose movement has decreased significantly) would have loads of trouble (lost) against not only great boxers like the aforementioned Robinson, Leonard, and Hearns, but also 1) rangy jabbers, technically proficient boxers in Vernon Forrest/prime Oscar De La Hoya and 2) a physically strong fighter with a shotgun jab and a good defense like Ike Quartey. Don't overlook the physical advantages of Forrest and Quartey. They were big welterweights.

Stylistically, a rough housing swarmer with a leaky defense and a tendency to get squared-up coming in plays directly into Mayweather's hands. Most people on ESB, including the better analysts, were saying this was a perfect fighter for Mayweather to look good against because of his movement, defense, and counterpunching skills. Turned out to be the case in the latter stages as he knocked Hatton out, which somewhat erased the fact that he also struggled in the first half; allowing Hatton to control the real estate and really make life uncomfortable for him.

Hatton may have been the champion at 140, but at 147, his effectiveness drops a massive amount. He relies on physical strength to bully opponents and gradually wear them down. At welterweight, he doesn't have that key advantage/ingredient to his success. He didn't look naturally bigger than Floyd, and didn't appear to have an overwhelming edge in strength. Most people knew this going into the fight. A lesser fighter in Collazo won anywhere from 6 to 7 rounds against Hatton simply by catching him coming in with accurate, crisp blows. Seriously, this one was a no-brainer.

He hasn't lost. You're right. But he has been pushed to the limit and given trouble by several opponents. None of these opponents were truly elite fighters at the time or ATG's in their primes. It's not unreasonable to say better fighters with similar styles that troubled Floyd could, and would, beat him.

 

atsch :scaredas:

 

Adding to my other post, seeing how Ricky Hatton troubled Floyd with his pressure, footspeed, ability to make it an inside fight, I'd easily pick the best welterweight version of Duran over him at 147. Seems logical; he's a more fluid puncher, faster, a harder puncher, physically stronger, technically better, and more defensively aware.

 

Are you speaking of Malignaggi?

 

I'm afraid he is speaking of Mosley. Pauli sure as hell didn't give him fits.

 

Blocky not that his bears repeating but your a tool, or as Robbi once said, a tally wacker (whatever the hell that is).

I'm aware of the fact that Mosely has more power, but coming from you I could see you ****ing that up.

Turns out however, that what you really ****ed up was the fact that Pauli gave Cotto "fits". Laughable, how did he do that, by lasting 12 rounds?

 

Oh and I'm still waiting for you thoghts on the Camacho vs. Limon fight since you saw them all and couldn't see "that era of fighter" giving Floyd problems.

Its great that you have seen the fights. I hadn't even seen this particular fight until a few weeks ago, so I'm eager to discuss it with you. :roll:

 

**** your thick. So now taking a few clear rounds in the middle of the fight is analogous to "giving him all sorts of fits."

Apples and oranges.

 

malignaggi got his face smashed in..

 

Indeed. The scores were 116-111 (two cards) and 115-112.

 

Your one of those posters that, even when hung out to dry and exposed with your bull**** arguements, continues to go with it. I won't waste my time with your type of dishonesty, you know that winning a few rounds doesn't equate to giving a fighter fits, thats just ridiculous and arguing it to prove a point about Mayweather and Cotto was never going to work.

I'm still waiting for your analysis of Camacho and Limon.

 

Hatton did trouble Floyd. He controlled the distance for the first six rounds, made Floyd more uncomfortable than I've seen him since the first Jose Luis Castillo fight, and roughed him up a bit with his rough housing tactics. Took a couple rounds as well. But let's be real here: Hatton is nothing compared to Duran. What does Hatton do better?

Duran was never dominated in his prime. I consider his prime the years he spent at lightweight. His only loss was to a great fighter in Esteban De Jesus. It was a non title fight and Duran came in unmotivated and not as sharp as he could have. In the rematches, Duran stopped him. And in title fights, he was 13-0 with 12 knockouts at lightweight.

If you want to extend his prime all the way 'till the 'No Mas' fight, go ahead. Still, he was never truly dominated. The scorecards were somewhat close when Duran checked out and he really did win a couple rounds. Leonard didn't land too much that was noteworthy, it was more the clowning around that pissed off Duran. He took it as an insult. Not to mention, he was badly weight drained, having to lose upwards of 60-70 pounds I believe.

Are you speaking of the Hearns fight when you say he was dominated by great fighters like Floyd? If so, that has no validity because stylistically, Hearns doesn't resemble Mayweather at all. Nor does he resemble Mayweather in terms of physical dimensions. Hearns was massive. Can't say the same for Floyd.

Duran beats Floyd at 147. He was a tactical genius, a technical in fighter, physically stronger, punched harder, a fluid combination puncher, and was about as relentless as they come. Floyd's decreased movement at this weight doesn't serve him well. Duran's footspeed and hand feints assure that he'd close the gap. Floyd couldn't potshot Duran and outmanuver him off of the backfoot. Inside, Duran holds a huge advantage. He'd rough Floyd up, outwork him, and outmuscle him. With Duran's defense, Floyd wouldn't be finding it easy to hit Duran. And if he did, it wouldn't stop Duran's offensive attack. Meanwhile, Floyd would be getting hit more than ever. He'd lose a clear cut decision or by late stoppage. Castillo's pressure can give Floyd problems, Hatton can close the gap, but Duran can't?

I'm not making presumptions that Duran automatically wins because he fought in the 70s and 80s. I formed this opinion based on my viewing of many of their fights and analyzing it.