Robinson's win over Armstrong

What a lucky *******.

 

I definitely do think that Ali would not have been stopped, had he fought three times as many times. To say Ali was stopped is a little misleading. Ali was in no condition to fight Holmes, and the fact that he lasted so long with virtually zero offence against a fellow alltime great is nothing short of amazing.

Ali was dropped a couple of times, but he was always off balance, and always came back. Which fights did Sugar take comparable punishment and shots to what Ali took against Frazier, Foreman, and others. Against Norton, Ali had his jaw broken and he still went the distance. When has Sugar Ray done something comparable? I am sorry, but i think that Ali has a better proven chin than Sugar Ray Robinson. That is not to say that Sugar Ray has a bad chin, because it also is one of the greats.

I define speed as the time it takes to throw and land a punch. The reflexes to duck, pivot or slip a punch, and perhaps ability to use footwork to get in and out of position. Muhammed Ali's jab was apparently timed as being faster than Ray Robinson's jab, based on a technical study of the film. that is astounding and blindingly quick. I take your points, but you refer more to technicique than speed. Ali was quicker than Robinson. Possibly not as pretty to watch, but definitely quicker on a pound for pound basis.

I agree that Ray had more power. But i also think that you are rating Ali on his 70s run, and not on his pre exile form which was much better. Ali definitely lost a lot of speed after the exile. And with this went his power and KO ability. I dont rate Ali's 70s run as high as most on here, on its own, but i think that combined with the ability shown in the 60s it is phenomenal. In the 60s, he was unorthodox, but lightning quick and offensively it was known he would be a handful for anyone. But like all dominant champs, his heart and chin was questioned and seen as his achilles heel. IN the 70s, he answered those questions with an astounding plus. It took a loss of his speed to prove it, but after his 70s effort, you knew that the fastest heavyweight ever, also had one of (if not the) best chins ever, recovery powers and stamina.

On a slightly different note, i once read an article by Joe Louis (should be found through google) written by Joe Louis about how he would clobber Clay. In simple terms, Joe knew he had a suspect chin, and said he would be prepared to take a few punches to land a few. What Joe didnt know, is that contrary to what he thought, Clay actually had one of the best chins ever. I really think that this article is proof that prime Ali would beat the great Joe Louis. Well, in their first fight at least.