Rocky: A Face Forward Fighter?

He was more than respectable, he was a great champion!
Something I have consistently stated!

 

1-henry cooper was at about the same level as old man archie moore, who dropped rocky. Ali mever went the distance witha guy who had 50 losses or was several years older than him, he made short work of those guys.

2-lol conspiracy theories. This has been debunked, the glove was already tore. Ali stopped cooper in the very next round and in the rematch to set the record straight.

3-Ali never got stopped either so whats your point? "Almost" is irrelevant since the fact of the matter is Ali was hurt but was never Koed so its subjective and pointless to discuss how badly.

4-Ali wouldnt have lost a single fight either if he had the same trash competition full of old men, light heavyweights, and shopworn cab drivers as Marciano. By far the worst argument you could have made. Anytime Ali struggled or lost it was against a hall of famer or an elite ranked heavyweight in their prime, and he was often older than the opponent. Rocky was younger than all his best opponents and they were all shopworn and small even by the standards of their day.

What is your point in all of this? What if i said Ali was a bum, would you throw Lennox Lewis and Holyfield under the bus too? Anytime Rocky is in the hot seat guys like you want to deflect, change the subject, or ignore the obvious.

We were talking about ROCKY. He had GLARING FLAWS but you want to use revisionist history and act like they werent there.

Maybe were not "haters" and are calling it for what it is? Rocky was a hell of a fighter, courageous, hard hitter, solid chin and superb conditioning, but defensive wizard he was not. We have eyes, its obvious to anyone who isnt lying to themselves rocky is far from being a great defensivs fighter even by heavyweight standards.

 

Rocky fits the description just fine. We could find tons of snapshots of him throwing wide or looping power punches with his face fully exposed and well within in his opponents’ punching range. Do you doubt or deny this?

 

There was nothing hypocritical in my assessment.

You want conclusions?

Rocky faced, by far, some of the worst quality heavyweights in the history of the division and looked bad in many of those fights. He was given a black eye and a cut against a chubby old, past his prime fighter with diminished handspeed and timing (joe louis). It took him 8 rounds to stop him.

Comparatively, when other lineal champions faced older, past their prime fighters, they did not suffer black eyes or cuts and won in a dominant fashion.

Conclusion: rockys defense in that fight must have not been that great.

Rocky was dropped by a nearly 40 year old walcott in the first round and was battered for by walcott for 13 rounds, losing several rounds before returning the favor with a suzy q.

Other lineal champions who fought men who were nearly 40: either demolished then or won by wide UD.

Conclusion: rockys defense wasnt that great in this fight either.

We could keep going, but you notice the pattern, right? Compared to you or I even other pros, maybe rockys defense was remarkable. But compared to other lineal heavyweight champions, he wouldnt make top 10 in this category. We eill reach the same conclusion every single time wether we choose to use tit for tat or reach a conclusion based on all the damning evidence.

 

The obvious difference being no one was able to capitalize on mayweathers weakness.

Mayweather never struggled with 38 year old men or cab drivers with 50 losses. No knockdowns, cuts, or black eyes against shopworn fighters.

Once again, stop trying to throw other fighters under the bus in a vain attempt to defend rocky and deflect the issue.

 

I don't see why Ali has surfaced in this thread about Marciano,but I'll address your points
I think Henry Cooper probably hit as hard as Archie Moore with his left hook.
Banks who had won his last 4 fights by ko, landed a terrific left hook which knocked a 20 years old Ali down for a 2 count.
Ali was having his 11th fight against the 10-2-0 Banks
Marciano's 11 th opponent was James Connolly 8-5-0
Marciano was a mature 25 when he turned pro.
The legend about the glove has grown ,the time that elapsed was negligible and gave Ali no tangible advantage.
Reports of the first Lowry fight say that Marciano was indeed in danger of being stopped by ko.

"It was Lowry, not Marciano, who was on the verge of scoring an early knockout, stinging Marciano with two terrific rights in the first round and then rocking him with two mighty uppercuts in the second. By the fourth, a staggered Marciano seemed just one punch away from being knocked out." .
Marciano was also in danger of being stopped by tko by both Keene Simmons and Ezzard Charles in their 2nd fight.
Marciano retired whilst still in his prime.Ali fought until he was 40 years old. Rocky had done the same I think it very probable he would have had some losses on his record.
Would Marciano have been able to take 4 years off just short of his prime , come back at 29 and win the title 2 more times?
I don't think any comparisons between Ali and Marciano will show us much.
Plus if Marciano had been fighting in Ali's time the Charles fight would have been stopped and Charles awarded the tko.
NB .One example of Marciano's unflappable mind-set, on the way to the weigh in for the Connolly fight, Marciano was in a bad car accident,Ali Columbo his buddy suggested they delay the fight Rocky was adamant it went ahead as scheduled. He ko'd Connolly in the 1st rd.

 

Since some people are hard headed, lets try a different approach.

List 10 heavyweights who you think had particularly great defense in the divisions history.

My list:

1-Jack Johnson
2-Chris Byrd
3-Gene Tunney
4-James Toney
5-Jimmy Young
6-Larry Holmes
7-Muhammad Ali
8-Mike Tyson
9-John Ruiz
10-Tony Tucker

Would someone like to take a stab at this list and explain to me how Rocky Marcianos defense would be regarded as good as or better than the people listed here?

 

Louis was older, but he still had a decent jab. Marciano wasn't a face forward fighter, but he had to be aggressive as he's not going to win out jabbing with his limited reach, so he became an aggressive pressure fighter, willing at the times to take two to land his one.

Rocky did exactly what he had to do to defeat Joe Louis. It's actually his best-filmed effort, I think.
To quote Louis himself, he said he could have never beaten Marciano because he did not like to be crowded.

Charles had fantastic skills, and speed. Watch Charles vs Rocky 1, a war. Or watch Charles vs Louis, a bad mismatch.

 

Ruiz? Johnson? Both were on film by less than scientific hitters.

If we are talking great defense among heavies, with defense being fast feet, head movement, counter punching to deter an attack, blocking with the gloves ducking, and clinching I'd say:

Corbett
Tunney
Walcott
Young
Ali
Holmes
Byrd
V Klitschko
W Klitschko
Toney ( in shape )