How did all of this Rocky Marciano furor get restarted? It is interesting how occasionally these things raise their heads and the vitriol certain topics repeatedly raise among hardcore fans! It is one of those topics that go to closely held beliefs and bias. Open kimono, not in any Harvey Weinstien sense, I am a Marciano fan who thinks he gets overrated by some insistent on basing your analysis on how he would fare h2h. Marciano's most effective defensive tool was his offense. He was not a defensive wizard and trying to develop a Tommy Loughran jab would have been silly. His willpower was inspirational! He honed his skills to fit both his innate strength and body type. He is a monument to maximizing what you have when you are there. He faced the best available and defeated them. Personally I think both Rez and Mcvey are great posters each providing interesting and informative content from different approaches. Rez provides great video content of which he is rightly proud. I also appreciate that his respects the efforts and sacrafices of past greats. It is unnerving when some keyboard slob unnecessarily belittles a warrior. Rez approaches it often fom an admiring fan's perspective. He often trades analysis for appreciation. I seem to recall his take on Jim Corbett s skills compared to more more moderen to be befuddling. While I shook my head at his fawning I likely would not otherwise have seen the footage. Mcvey takes on a historian or academic approach. Many are the time that he brings discussions back to reality with salient facts laid out clearly and concisely. His breadth and depth of knowledge is a meaningful contribution to any discussion inwhich he participates. I really appreciate his critical analysis even when he gets it wrong. I have had a few disagreements with him, I recall a prolonged disageement with him that got heated and somewhat personal years ago over the probative value of Mike Bruce's 1st round flash knockdown of Joe Frazier in Joe's 2ND pro fight. While it was a little irritating I appreciated that there was someone willing even to discuss it.
I don't remember the Bruce thing.I've nothing against Reznik, I just find hero-worship whom ever is the object of it to be a bit nauseating.He does make some good films!
Yeah the Rocky worship can definitely get tiresome. Question : How many Rockys would take to the Nazis in 1939?" Answer : "7, 3 if you gave them a gun." I find the Liston cult while smaller even more delusional. "Sonny was 47 years old when he beat Patterson! His fist was so big he could not grasp it with his other hand! They had to sew 2 gloves together so they could fit his hand in! "
I think Mcvey has learned a lot of information and data over the years. But the way he uses them to come to conclusions, in my opinion, is poorly done. He’ll usually take a topic that has about 100 factors going for it. He’ll take one quote that represents just one factor, and he’ll form the entire argument based on it. If you present him with a view from the other side, he’ll just add another quote from his side without acknowledging your points. It becomes a competition of who can produce the most quotes for their argument, and that’s a dumb way to win an argument. I actually view my approach to be more accurate. Cut through the 100 years of culturalisms and get straight to the footage and the performance.
I’m going simply based off your own post when you supported Nats criticism of Rocky missing 2/3 punches. When that’s not even a bad ratio. Lol. Instead of being introspective about this, you’ve begun to foam at the mouth. Nice. Wilder is also referred to as a street fighter. A lot. And then you have many people saying “Wait. Don’t underestimate this guys boxing abilities and his defense.” And Chris Arreola sayingbhe couldn’t figure him out. What Rocky and Louis said about Rocky’s abilities contrast with the condition they were left in when the fights were over.
Yup keep ducking every valid point and zeroing in on the fleischer quote to nitpick, all youve done is exposed your agenda! If you were honest youd at least attempt to refute or debate something i wrote, but you wont because you'd expose yourself yet again.
Stop with this "agenda" stuff. If you disagree on technical stuff come back with a technical explanation to support your view. If you can't do that you are only exposing yourself as some one who has no answer. You accuse him of wanting something to be so. If it's not so. Show him. Can you do that? Reznick can detail what he sees. He backs it up with film. And the part if the film he is talking about.
Rocky is not as bad in these areas as his critics make out. Nor as good in these areas as his boosters make out.
Being diplomatic earns no points. Take a stand. Take an extreme stand. You're either with us or against us. There is only Black and White, no gray.
I love how they treat a bad Rocky quote like some Da Vinci Code. You can produce that kind of language for any prominent fighter. Foreman said Frazier has no left hook. Ali said that Frazier and Foreman have no style, and are just wild sluggers. Louis was criticized for slow feet, even he moves faster than Gassiev. Many call AJ bodybuilder with no stamina. Yada yada yada. If you’re arguing about a dominant lineal champion, and your description of them is anything less then very good, then there’s a good chance your argument sucks.
No don't say that. People who don't write about the sport well can still understand it really well. It tends to come through eventually.
Trying to give Rocky the respect that other top 10 fighters receive is not hero worship. It’s a return to normalcy.
It probably feels like i'm trying to pick a fight with you now; i promise i'm not. But he gets way, way more love than fighters from almost every other weight. I mean he's probably one of the most beloved fighters on the forum. He has his critics but he's enormously popular, polls well, is getting a good response in the "where do you rank him" thread running right now (better than Tyson, Liston, Holyfield would I think). I don't think what you said is true.