Rocky: A Face Forward Fighter?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Nov 13, 2017.


  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    They might know the sport. But that particular argument sucks.

    It’s almost like saying Dr J, Cristopher Nolan, and James Brown aren’t good at what they do.
     
  2. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I think I know you well enough to know you don’t do that.

    Rocky does score high in the polls.
    But he suffers dearly in the day to day talk.

    One of my main points is that many people call him great, while going with the “he couldn’t box” tropes. And I’m trying to show how those two realities can’t exist at once. You can’t be a great boxer without being a great boxer.

    Rocky’s actual skills and performance is the grey area that most people want to avoid. Typically, in my opinion, because they immedietly see that his fighting style isn’t as simple as described. And to truly analyze it would be an inconvenience and a headache since you’d have to rethink Marciano without the help of Bert Sugar documentaries and fitting anecdotes.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I give him as much if not more respect than most on this forum.I've many ,many times ,called him a great fighter, a great champion, and a fine man. What I haven't called him is a master of subtle defective skills because he wasn't. "When the legend becomes fact print the legend".Not me. Hero worshippers can do as they wish.
     
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    We should anaylze the arguments on the merits. Not if some destitute bitter people interpret it as hero worshipping or not.

    I could care less if some mope twists a view point they find disfavorabe into some supposed overzealous obsession.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If i'm being honest with you, I would have to say that I think that's untrue. He comes around, sure, like all the other heavyweights. There's always some lunatic trying to assassinate Joe Louis or run down Jack Dempsey. They all come around and get their turn. To me, it seems like you probably just like Marciano more than most heavies and so it sticks out to you more.

    However, that may not be true. Maybe Marciano really does get more abuse than the other heavies. After all, he's small for a great heavy, and has a very singular style. But i there's a difference, it won't be huge I'd bet.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Rocky Marciano gets more excuses made for him than just about any other champion I can think of.
    I've heard some solemnly state ,he missed punches on purpose, he only overbalanced and fell over because he committed to every punch, his sportsmanship inside the ropes was outstanding[he was a dirty f*cker,] his stamina was unrivalled and unparalled,he wasn't a bleeder,his 33 , 37, 38 ,and 40 years old opponents were in their prime. It's farcical and would be amusing if it wasn't so desperately sad.
    He wasn't a face first fighter,a cursory look at his boxing stance would tell even a 6 year old that.Neither was he Willie F*CKING Pep!

    The unabashed idolatry reminds me of the line in Braveheart.

    "Yes, I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse."
     
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  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I hear you. My true feeling is that he gets it worse than others on the day to day front.

    I have him at #5, so there are other boxers that I like more who I am more passionate about. But in my eyes they get their just due. This could just as easily be about any other top 10 fighter.

    It feels like if I replaced Ali with Marciano on this forum, the conversation would be imbalanced towards Ali’s “mistakes and flaws.” His low hands, no defense, no body shot punching tendencies would be far more prominent.
     
  8. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not all fighters are viewed the same, nor should they be, so it seems like a rather fruitless "quest" no?
     
  9. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Marciano gets plenty of respect on this forum. Much of the criticism he receives comes in the form of counterarguments to a tiny revisionistic fringe of Rocky fanboys who insist on arguing that his obvious, well-known flaws and weaknesses either don’t exist or are actually even unrecognized strengths. It’s a shame. If there weren’t people around here making up crazy claims about Marciano’s defensive acumen, excellent fluidity, impeccable balance, brilliant footwork and superlative boxing IQ, the rest of us would probably spend a lot less time commenting on his flaws and limitations.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Fine lets analyse his defence which you laud daily.
    He was cut and marked up in 6 fights that I can recall without recourse to Box Rec.
    He was in danger of being stopped on cuts in2 fights.Keene Simmons,and Ezzard Charles2.
    How do we reconcile this with the defence you see him employ?
    He was a million dollar one punch ko artist .
    Yet he had to rely on condition and an incessant bombardment to stop.
    Moore 40 years old
    C*ckell a moderate heavyweight who really didn't belong in that tiny 16 foot ring.
    How is this the case?
    He was a sportsman inside the ring.Yet he was warned 6 times by Ruby Goldstein for elbowing, butting, hitting low, and after the bell against Lastarza and had a round taken away for it.
    He hit C*ckell low,after the bell, whilst he was on the floor,and butted him.
    He butted Walcott.
    He hit Moore after the bell and Moore furiously retaliated.
    He had good balance. Yet he fell over in fights after missing punches by several feet!
    His stamina was unreal yet a 38 years old man was in front after 12 rds against him?

    Facts aren't hate, they are just facts.
    Just as after butting Walcott which caused him as much facial injury as Jersey Joe ,liniment used on Walcott,or his own corners poor work[there are two differing stories] got into his eyes and made them burn terribly ,yet he never for one second entertained quitting, in fact it would be difficult to ascertain the discomfort he was undoubtedly in by watching the fight. We are familiar with it only because of the post fight story.
    Just as with his nose sliced in half by Charles elbow and in danger of being stopped he went out and did what true champions do, he closed the show!
    Knocked down by Moore ,by his own admission he blacked out for a moment,under the impression he was entitled to a standing count he begins to walk to the ropes. When the fight is resumed the commentator says" Rocky is in trouble",well you could have fooled me ,he makes no attempt to backpedal or avoid Moore's onslaught he meets it halfway and is trading on even terms when the bell rings.
    These are also facts.
    Let's for f*cks sake be objective about the man. He had an indomitable will to win ,frightening self belief, for his size really excellent power, fantastic condition , a huge heart , never gave less than100% in every fight he fought.Ducked nobody. BUT! He didn't have a F*CKING S on his chest!
     
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  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yeah it boils your p*ss after a while!
     
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  12. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Top 20 fighters should all meet a baseline level of respect.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Who is destitute?Who is bitter? Why would anyone be so?
     
  14. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    So just curious.
    Do people here find this style of argumentation compelling?


    I could do an almost identically negative post on Ali...
    Anyone can.
     
  15. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I see it as the other way around.