Has anyone ever carefully reviewed Rocky Grazino's record pre-Zale ? I have never seen a more padded list of journeymen on any build up of a man some take seriously .. about 80% of the men he fought had losing records .. some only a very small handful of fights .. then his few victories of any note came against decent but not great welters .. how in the world putting aside he was a colorful character with a good right hand does anyone take him remotely seriously and what does it say about Zale at that point in his own career ?
Yeah, plus he was in one of the most celebrated rivalries of the era. HG, how would you say his record compares, in a very general sense, with that of Mickey Ward?
Didn't he once knock a prime-ish Sugar Ray Robinson down for a flash KD too (while past his own prime) ? That alone would normally be just cause to be "taken seriously". In my opinion, for whatever that's worth.
Billy Backus was the welterweight champion of the world. Leon Spinks was the heavyweight champion of the world. Jimmy Braddock was heavyweight champion of the world. There were many guys that slipped in based on the circumstance of fighting the right guy on the right night but none of them are remotely immortalized like Graziano who essentially had one win of quality at middleweight over a faded Zale .. look at his record on Bozrec and look at the guys he fought .. it is astonishing ..
Graziano was a very serious puncher with flaws from being always aggressive and looking for the Sunday punch. He was tough SOB and exciting ***** to wall guy, technique was not his forte. Iran Barkley reminded me of Graziano because of his ***** to the wall style. Far from perfect but always game and dangerous and exciting. He fought game and dangerous with the likes of SRR and Zale and was semi successful and that speaks much
I was fortunate enough to have seen Rocky Graziano fight since his prelim days ringside until his 3 wars with a faded Tony Zale, and I will state that NO fighter I have ever seen ringside THRILLED his audience like Rocky did in spite of "who did he ever beat" from some posters. Was Rocky a great alltime MW. No in boxing ability, but in sheer savagery, toughness, and vicious tenacity in the ring that gave the audience digitalis moments, give me the Rocky Graziano over a Floyd Mayweather in sheer enjoyment to thrill the boxing fans, anytime and anyplace...Does anyone of his detractors think he became the NO.1 fistic attraction for no reason ??? And YES he would have destroyed Mickey Ward...
Like McGrain pointed out, if he's "immoratlized" it might be because of the rivalry of the Zale trilogy. And as burt's eyewitness testimony confirms, he was one of the most thrilling fighters. His first two fights with Zale were epic see-saw affairs. I don't think Leon Spinks, Jimmy Braddock or Billy Backus won their titles in exciting fights at all. Far from it. That might explain why they aren't remembered as fondly.
I fervently hope there was a way to transport some of Graziano's belittlers on ESB to some of his fights I attended to, particularly to his "comimg out party" sensational ko of Billy Arnold in 1945. Billy Arnold was a sensational kp artist who flattened almost 42 or so fighters in a row,and was deemed "the New Joe Louis" by the boxing public.Arnold was an 8-1 favorite to destroy the tough, crude Eastside kid Rocco Barbella from New York at MSG. We in the crowd, including Vice President Harry Truman saw the most sensational fight you can imagine. In the first round Billy Arnold battered Rocky from pillar to post with his powerful punches and the referee was on the verge of stopping the fight . In the secong round the brave Graziano was taking a beating until his grenade like right hand exploded on Billy Arnold's chin, and Rocky sensing blood in the water went berserk smashing Arnold with a Ketchel like attack and finally flattened the "new Joe Louis" in the 3rd round. We in the audience were stunned by this sensational upset, and this ko made Rocky Graziano the new sensation of a boxing attraction in America. And ruined Billy Arnold forever after,as he soon retired from boxing. Rocky then Kod Al Bummy Davis, Freddie Red Cochrane [2], Harold Green, Marty Servo who gave Ray Robinson 2 tough bouts, was also ruined by Graziano after Rocky kod him and injured Servo's nose forcing Servo also to retire. Well THIS is the Rocky Graziano that catured the public's eye and made him hands down the most exciting fighter in America and one helluva puncher to boot...
Calling Marty Servo a decent but not great welterweight is bit of a rough call. Marty fought the probably greatest welterweight ever and possibly the greatest pound for pound fighter ever twice, both in the prime of his career (Sugar Ray Robinson). The result was one extremely close fight and one fight where at least one judge thought he won the fight, while one of the others looks on face value to have been either on the take or at the very least watching a different fight to the rest of the crowd. Is there another welterweight that you would pick to repeat that performance? Given that Rocky knocked him out in 2 rounds and finished his career, i think that this counts as a little more than a win over a good but not Great Welterweight.
Have just as careful a look at the records of some of the present day "contenders" and "champions." Some organisations currently have guys in their Top 10s who have never fought anybody. Let alone beaten anybody.
OK .. Ray fought the guy four years earlier than Rocky did and Marty was not the same .. no doubt Marty gave Ray a challenging stylistic match up but ar you saying you rate him as an all time great welter ? Top five ? Top ten ? Not mine ..
Burt, who did Billy Arnold ever defeat ? I do not doubt the drama of the events but I just don't pivot it into making it more than it was .. I don't think Rocky was a top forty all time middleweight ..