Rocky Marciano (1952) vs Muhammad Ali (1975)

Ali would catch mostly forearms and shoulder with occasional jabs & crosses glancing harmlessly off the top of the head. Ali didnt have much of a hook and never throws body blows. Trust me, the Rock is in no danger

 

The Frazier that fought Ali in Manila fought the fight of his life ( FOTC aside) much like the Walcott who fought Marciano the first fight ... he or his performance should not be discounted. I highly doubrt any form of Marciano KO's this Ali. Just a year earlier Ali had taken the bombs of Foreman. Two years later he would take the best of Shavers. This Ali was still very big and very strong. He was 225 and aside from a bit of belly flab he was a pretty huge fighter in his own right. He still had a terrific jab , a very good right hand and we saw him fight a furious 14 rounds in killer heat. As much as we praise Marciano's stamina I do not recall him fighting , ever, at this pace against a man that size in that type of heat and humidity. I can see Rocky possiblly and I say possibly in maybe one out of three, getting a close decision but an KO, very unlikely.

 

Ali of the mid 1970s gets overrated in h2h matchups. He was old, slow, and would get killed on the ropes by a high volume puncher like Marciano. His toughness and heart would see him to the finish line, but he won't be a winner. I don't think a 1975 Ali beats any great heavyweight. Joe was no longer great in 75, he was tubby, and his reflexes had badly declined. Sure, Ali was big and strong in 1975, but Louis was big and strong too in 1951..It didn't matter. He didn't have the reflexes and speed anymore, and neither does Ali.

The only Ali that beats Rock is the 1960's, imo.

 

I don't like that analogy at all. Frazier fought the fight of his life in terms of heart and courage, but that was all he had left. Frazier was flabby all over, his reflexes had sharply declined. In contrast, Walcott was in terrific shape physically, had sharp reflexes, great jab, two fisted power, movement, handspeed. All things Frazier had lost by 1975.

Perhaps a better comparison of Manilla Frazier would be to the Charles of the first Marciano fight.

 

Ali was there to be hit? Good joke.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YCU2tAFt8[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YCU2tAFt8[/ame]

 

Too bad this film happened 8 years prior to the date we are asking(1975). Ali could not do that stuff anymore by 1975.

 

The problem for Ali here is that we are matching a verry dilapidated version of himself against perhaps the best version of Marciano to grace the ring.

Howevewr you see the figfht going prime for prime, there has to come a point in his career where Marciano will take him.

Given enough time there eventualy came a point where Leon Spinks took him.

Remember that although Joe FRazier looked impresive in Manilla, he was himself verry dilapidated.

I say that the death mark against Marciano falls before 1975.

 

For me, this thread, and the sterling research by Dempsey1238 is one of the greatest moments of discovery in ESB Classic history:

http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68242&highlight=crowd+screams+walcott+marciano

As for a match between 1975 Ali and 1952 Marciano, Muhammad would go to the ropes where Rocky would be targeting his shoulders, biceps, hips and anything else he could hit. As it progressed, Ali would discover that not only would his bruised and battered arms and shoulders compromise his ability to punch back, but Marciano's power would not be diminishing to mere slaps as the rounds wore on. Furthermore, Rocky was a bleeder, where Joe's face tended to swell his good eye shut. Beyond that, Muhammad didn't draw blood at this stage of his career the way one might expect. Quarry was unmarked at the end of their rematch, and even Wepner didn't open up as everybody expected.

While I think Ali was too tough and durable to be taken out by Marciano, neither would he have been able to overcome any deficit once conceded, as he managed to do in Manila. Muhammad would pay a dear price for his penchant to absorb punishment at this stage of his career. (I actually give the Ali of the Spinks rematch in New Orleans a better shot at winning a decision, as he kept dancing and boxing in the middle of the ring through most of the 15 rounds, leaving the muscles of his legs sore afterward. That was an amazing and overlooked athletic feat of muscular endurance. His legs never really deserted him. With Rocky, one didn't want to get hit at all, if this was possible to avoid.)

 

il take marciano here,can see him pounding away to alis arms till they dropped and knocking ali spark out for the first time in his career

 

Yeah, a bit of an inconvenient fact.

 

I just can't see Rocky beating Ali, I know its the 1975 version of Ali but still he was 6'3 with that great reach and long jab, the rock was what 5'8? I know Rocky can bang, he was a vicious puncher but I just think Ali is in a different league, even here. I think Rocky gives Ali hell much like Frazier did but I still see Ali either winning on points or on a late stoppage. I just think Rocky would have to score a KO and you don't KO Ali, period end of story. Rocky is not beating Ali on points, hes just not. Ali wins..

 

Nope. He was 5'11

 

Thats what they list him at but I think not

 

[/QUOTE]

Well what you think, and what is reality is entirely different. What is factual evidence matters, not your "hunch" he was shorter. Rocky was around 5'11 or a smidge lower. He has been measured many times, and his brother told me personally he was 5'11. Accept it.

 

5'8-5'11 what ever, the point I was making is I just think Ali is to big.. I respect the opinions of those who think Rocky would win I am just not one of them, he is one of the atgs but Ali beats him in my eyes..