Rocky Marciano '53 vs. Ezzard Charles '48

It’s not unreasonable to think Charles could beat anyone. This is a fight that’s happened though and Charles wasn’t far past it at all. Obviously not prime but that’s not saying much considering he was still fighting well.

 

I don't think Charles was shot, but he certainly wasn't the fighter he used to be. It's like comparing 1967 Ali with 1975 Ali or 1941 Louis to 1947 Louis.

 

I don't think surrendering 10-15 lbs to the Rock in his prime would be in Charles' best interest. He would not be able to box perfectly for 15 rounds without getting bulled to the ropes eventually and overwhelmed.

The older heavier Charles who was still only 32 against a 30 year old Marciano, was still very sharp , quick, and deceptively strong.

I feel this would look like the Matthews mismatch, with Charles not having enough power or size to keep Marciano honest. He'd get pushed around at will.

 

Wasn’t that long before they fought and I really don’t think he was “much” better. I don’t even think the first fight deserved a rematch because I don’t think it was that close.

Accurate assessment def

 

48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54.

That's seven years mate.

One couldn't beat Nino Valdez and other flattened Archie Moore. One was at his peak weight, peak condition, was feared and unrivaled and the other had been badly knocked out, had lost two of his last four, was well above his preferred weight and was roughly seven years older. The difference in ability between the two is massive, it's just Charles was so good he was still able to massively troubled Marciano and remain as a top fighter.

Then this is just inaccurate. You should read more about the fight.

It was incredibly close.

 

The fight certainly wasn’t a blowout I just don’t think it was that close. I’d compare it Usyk v Joshua. Both had their moments but it was clear who was in charge the whole night.

judging from the film I really don’t think Charles was that far off. I personally think he didn’t take Nino seriously and that was supposedly a close match. Not beating Harold Johnson isn’t a slight. Ever. That fight could have been scored either way that was a damn close fight. I more like to say Charles was coming off two good wins and was def prepared for Marciano. He was the only man to go the distance with him in his title reign.

I should have specified when saying not that long…meaning he wasn’t that long off his prime. Depending on how you see it.

all in all Charles took a smart strategy with Marciano in attacking the body. Causing marciano to have the most painful fight of his career (according to him anyway). I think a more motivated Marciano came out in the second and really took care of business. He wasn’t happy he didn’t get the Ko in the first one.

 

That's a terrible comparison. Even on film it's far more competitive than that, and the bit we have on film is after Marciano had taken the momentum. Joshua struggled to win three rounds, there were people ring side who were saying Charles won.

It was an 8-7, or 9-6 type fight. Hence the rematch.

What film of Charles in '48 are you watching?

Charles took everyone seriously after the war. He was so committed to training he was back in the gym the day after the loss to Walcott. He was a spartan trainer, and even if he did come in slightly heavier than normal, he still lost to Valdez. And no it wasn't a particularly close fight. Charles lost clearly. He lost because he was way past his best.

It was a damn close fight because Charles was past his best. A prime Charles was way better than Johnson and would've stopped him. Regardless, he'd still lost to Johnson.

You like to lie to yourself?

Coley Wallace was a nobody.

And beating Satterfield is not some grand achievement. Everyone in the era accomplished it at some point.

His prime - as in, absolutely peak - didn't even stretch above LHW. His prime - as in, near his absolute peak - was gone before he lost his title. Being sparked the **** out then having so many grueling fights vs bigger men just added to his downfall.

He was in no way prime, or near it. He had a turn back the clock moment, which is why it's a fair pick to beat him early on.

That smart strategy which was done by an old version (who nearly won), would be used by a young version, who would win. Marciano got the KO in the rematch because Charles had used up all he had left in the first fight. Marciano spent six months in training camp for the first Charles fight... I highly doubt motivation was the problem.

 

No version of Charles beats Rocky. Unless you're an exceptional boxer who can fight on the outside and do it for 10 or 15 rounds, it's going to be hard. Any footage I've seen, people have excused him for being either over-the-hill, or, before his prime. I'm not exactly sure, or for how long, his "prime" was. I was told growing up he a was a sleek, fast boxer, like his nickname, the "Cincinnati Cobra". Like a bigger version of Ray Robinson. I've never seen that in any of the fights I have seen of him. To me he looked very sluggish and tired. If anyone has any fight of his that suggests otherwise, please drop a link.

 

I like how a past prime Ezzard Charles can last 15 with Marciano in a close fight yet somehow Marciano is knocking out a prime version? If Marciano wins this fight he's winning on the cards.

 

No offense to anyone but this brilliant little snippet simply HAS to be recognized

 

I have to give a younger Charles a very good chance at this one. The winning streak
he was on prior to the early 50’s was one of the best in history

 

Cockell was about like Brian London So how good is that? And Cockell beat LaStarza so how good could he be? Then you had a few older black fighters who missed their primes in the early 40s because of the color line. So yes compared to what it would become by late 50s it was pretty weak. Machen and Folley came in and beat all the old guys left then liston came and beat everyone including them.

 

The fight was scored as follows
8-6-1 by ref
8-5-2
9-5-1
All in favor of Marciano…hardly that close. The AP scored it 10-4-1.
Usyk Joshua was scored
117-112
116-112
115-113
So really it’s rather similar.
Satterfield beat a lot more contenders then most people. The top contenders of the era and even later 60s era failed to beat him. He was a high risk low reward opponent.
Marciano is stated to have over trained for the first Charles fight and felt he wasn’t at his best. You’re really going to try and tell me Charles was just tired in the rematch? The nine months off didn’t rest him at all? Marciano was the better prepared man and went out to KO Charles and he did.
You saying Charles would win doesn’t make it so nor does it match up with the reality of the situation. We have 22 rounds of them going at it a slightly faster Charles does maybe slightly better but he’s not making up that big a deficit imo.

 

These are almost exactly the scores I said it was... I said 9-6/8-7. These are those with even rounds lmao.

As for your claim that Charles did not warrant a rematch, you should really stop putting so much emphasis on what Marciano says. He believed Charles deserved one. "He gave me a helluva fight. He deserves a return fight if he wants it."

Associated Press reports are famously unreliable, some times they're not even at the fight. Given that Charles was probably the most unpopular heavyweight champion in well over 20 years, and Marciano was one of the most popular ever, I don't put any weight on this. Furthermore, even if this was to tell the story of the fight, it doesn't actually tell you how competitive each round was. Charles doesn't need to turn ten 10-8 rounds into wins, he needs to get the better of four already close rounds.

He's literally a top three fighter ever. It's far from impossible.

Satterfield lost twenty five times, and in the two years before Charles he'd lost in one round to Henry, two to Johnson, and in the two years after would lose in two Marty Marshall, and a decision to Doc Williams. Beating Satterfield is not as impressive as you think it is. Everyone managed it at some point.

This doesn't hold much water. Marciano was able to throw 100 power punches in the fifteenth round. Hardly the work of someone who's overtrained, that's the work of someone who's in amazing condition. Furthermore, he went straight back into camp a week after the fight, so surely he'd have been overtrained for the rematch and well? That's an extremely poor excuse.

What nine months?

Y'know their rematch was three months after their first fight, right? And Charles was training for two of them?

I'm not saying Charles was tired you moron, I'm saying Charles was spent. Shot.

He used everything he had left trying to beat Marciano the first time.

It's a helluva lot easier to get in that condition, and do that, when you're the bigger man vs an older fighter whose career was far, far harder than his.

A younger Charles would be equally well prepared as he was for the first fight, and would be a sharper, quicker, more agile version.

It absolutely makes sense.

Charles would be quicker, sharper, more explosive, more agile, have improved stamima, less brain trauma, and would be much fresher. The strategy he used vs Marciano worked, he just couldn't sustain it for long enough. He used body work, hit Marciano with fast combos, rolled the return then stepped out and jabbed. He then wasn't completely overrun when he couldn't do this, and that's why it was such a great fight.

If anything, what defines sense to write off Charles.

This big deficit doesn't exist.

He literally needs to do what he did for five more minutes and he wins.

 

3 months not 9 that’s correct went over it quickly. Regardless that’s not how the sport worked. Mentally Charles may have been defeated before entering which happens. But physically speaking for you to say he left it all in the last fight is not and can’t be factual. No one would know but Charles. nice to resort to name calling when your argument holds no water. I said Usyk Joshua was a comparable fight because it was almost the same exact score cards. And it was clear even the rounds Joshua won Usyk was still in control as was the Marciano b Charles fight. We all know who was throwing the better cleaner punches and who was actually controlling the fight even if a round or two slipped away. It was clear in both fights who the winner would be. They were both entertaining fights which may or may not call for a rematch but I wouldn’t say it was close enough to demand one. A split decision is a close fight this was not. Competitive? Yes. Anywhere close to being considered controversial? No.