Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Omega74, Jul 20, 2021.
Stopped reading at "the era was ruled by Leon spinks".
Lyle would not just be running away and jabbing. The way you keep replying makes me wonder if you've even seen his fights. He was an aggressive boxer puncher but would also slug.
You keep saying it wasn't a problem for Rocky fighting 200 pound men ignoring that the quality of those men was rather low.
Large heavies in the 50's didn't make the full use of their size and often willingly duked it out at close quarters.
Had he fought someone like Valdez or stuck around to fight Liston that would have given us a better idea of how he'd look against an elite skilled big man.
Never said Rocky would gas against Lyle. My point was that Rocky's not going to fight like young or Ali so for the love of God can you stop bringing those fights up?
Watch Lyle v Shavers. He didn’t just stand in front of Shavers. He’s obviously not Ali or Holmes nor would I call it running. It’s called using your height and reach to your advantage. Which he did in that fight. Not great but got the job done. Lyle wasn’t a high skill guy. He was a strong man with an excellent one two. Wasn’t particularly great at anything in particular. He didn’t feint well he didn’t parry well he didn’t utilize his jab all that well (or should say he under used it). He also didn’t counter well. He did have a lot of strength and heart. That’s not gonna be enough against Marciano.
Lyles gas tank wasn’t that good. Why wouldn’t I be able to point to obvious fights to point that out? Young Quarry and Ali were completely different fighters and he tired in all of them. Why wouldn’t that be an issue against one of the most busy fighters at Hw ever? I also pointed out Marciano made people miss often and countered very well.
I have seen plenty of Lyle and I told you I like him. He wouldn’t stand in front of Marciano unless he wanted to get knocked out early. Wouldn’t make sense for him to do so. He wouldn’t be utilizing his advantages. Watch Lyle v Shavers he moves around plenty
Sure you did.
Why would I bother with the rest? Even Leon Spinks' family doesn't believe Leon Spinks dominated his era.
Just stop. You're a troll.
Because for the 4th or 5th time now, Rocky didn't fight like Ali or Young or Quarry. The reason Lyle tired in those bouts is because the opponents were all slick and outboxing him from range and making him think and second guess his actions. That wouldnt happen against Rocky. Therefore it makes no ****ing sense to say Lyle got tired against them and then say he'd get tired against Rocky. A fight with Rocky would look totally different.
The closest guys in Lyle's era to Rocky in style we're Frazier and Bonavena. Both were around 5'10-5'11 stocky come forward guys. He beat Bonavena and he wasn't gasping for air or gassed. Yet you'll ignore that fight and try to compare Rocky to the 6'3 long armed Ali who liked to dance and move away from you as evidence Lyle would tire against Rocky. You're not making any sense.
Technically Leon Spinks was ruling the heavyweights for a segment of Lyles prime.
No he wasn't.
He never should have gotten a title shot in the first place. He beat an old zombie parkinson's ridden Ali then immediately lost in his first title defense. In fact, he got stripped because he was obligated to fight Norton and that's what led to the splitting of the titles. You can certainly question the legitimacy of his reign and he certainly was never the "best" heavyweight in the world.
He was not ruling over the division the way Joe Louis was for example. What you wrote was BS and you know it. And Lyle was past his prime when this happened.
I actually told you Lyle did tire against Bonavena which you can read anywhere about the fight. Wether you like it or not Lyle WiLL miss shots against Marciano and get countered. A lot. Marciano was better then a six year out of prime Bonavena. Quarry also didn’t out box Lyle from the outside he fought him beautifully on the inside. If a fighter is prone to getting tired in multiple fights he is likely to tire in others. I pointed out the three different fighters (we can add several others as well) just to make a point it doesn’t matter what style he’s against he tires. His stamina was very questionable. It didn’t matter if it was Bonavena or Ali. Didn’t mean he wasn’t capable of beating some decent opponents just that he tires. And against Marciano that’s a disaster. If you really feel Lyle won’t tire but he did in many other fights that’s fine we aren’t gonna agree there.
A gassed fighter isn't going to go the distance, they get stopped. A gassed fighter lacks the faculties and energy to keep their guard up and block properly and they have a horrible punch output.
By your own definition he couldn't have been gassed in those fights. Anyone is going to be tired in the last two rounds of a 12 round fighter. Especially if we read what actually happened:
"Aware he was behind in the scoring, however, Bonavena came on strong in the last two rounds and both men traded punches freely despite being obviously tired." -Associated Press
"He's a bull. He's more physical than Jerry Quarry with not quite as much finesse. Quarry was sharper but Bonavena hit heavier and came at me all the time." -Ron Lyle
So according to 2 different sources (including Lyle himself) both men continued to let their hands go and punch hard DESPITE being tired all the way up to the final bell. Lyle explicitly mentions that Bonavena attacked relentlessly and punched hard from start to finish. Reminds me of a certain boxer of Italian heritage.
The reports DON'T say Lyle was huffing and puffing with both arms down going into a shell with a low punch output and stumbling around ready to fall over.
The reports also say Lyle won UNANIMOUSLY.
Only in a Rocky thread will you see posters highlighting these facts and somehow use them to bash another fighter when they love talking about Rocky's high work rate and late round hustling. Pure hypocrisy.
Lyle beat a guy who was similar to Rocky (both in height and style and who was literally trained by the same coach) via UD and both men continued slugging it out all the way to the final bell but somehow this is evidence Lyle had "bad stamina".
I don't care if you think Rocky wins, but this is not evidence that Lyle had stamina problems when he has multiple fights going the distance and finishing strong. See the Ledoux fight, Ellis, Bugner, etc.
I have no idea why you’re arguing this when everyone including yourself can watch video. It’s obvious he gets tired. It feels like a troll job at this point it’s so obvious. He didn’t look good in the Ledoux fight. The opposite was true.
Lyle does t need to tire (I’ll refrain from using gas as you seem to be adamantly against that term that means the same thing). Lyle doesn’t need to tire for Marciano to win this one anyway it’s not the biggest factor it’s just one of a few. If you don’t think he tires there’s nothing I can say to change your mind (already told you to watch film) I just think you’re wrong.
that post from the Bonavena fight is exactly what I want you to read…he tired
Yes, he tired, and continued to throw hard punches until the final bell. How can you insist he had stamina problems if he continued throwing hard punches with a high output in the 12th and final round? And he WON the bloody fight unanimously but somehow this is a mark against him.
That’s a fight he won. Plenty he lost. But once again it was one example of many just to point out that he tired….often. Every fighter has faults. Lyle had a ton of heart. Hence he kept going. But do you realistically think his punches are as strong as round one? His defense is as sound as round one (wasn’t that good to begin with)? His out put is as good? He may keep trucking on because he’s a warrior but it means something to tire.
I'll ask one last time: HOW IS HIS STAMINA A PROBLEM IF IN EVERY FIGHT YOU SEE HIM CONTINUE TO THROW HARD PUNCHES WITH AGGRESSION AND A HIGH OUTPUT EVEN WELL INTO THE 12TH ROUND?