Rocky Marciano fights Oliver McCall

I'm sorry did you just refer to Walcott as a journeyman?

 

He is the definition of a high performing journeyman.

In a thread a while back I quoted almost countless contemporary sources that referred to him as a journeyman. Just because some have made a hero of him in retrospect does not change the reality as recognized at the time.

 

The Undisputed Heavyweight Champion who has wins over ATGs is not a journeyman and we both are very aware of that

 

Damn near every reporter reporting on his 50th, and finally successful, attempt to get the title explicitly used the term "journeyman" in referring to him.

Don't blame me.

 

In your mind, what are the differences between that era's heavies and those from the past 30 years? Given that the sport, at least in the US, has declined since that time and that the big boy division has been diluted by competition with other big boy sports, how do you explain this change?

Just curious as to your thoughts.

 

Do you have any examples of fighters similar to Marciano in ability, style and size who tried to move up and failed?
Perhaps the ones to usually succeed are good boxers with good balance and footwork, because that's a far more common type of fighter.

Your argument seems to be that because nobody of Rockys dimensions and style has succeeded in the HW division since, that Marciano wouldn't succeed. Any examples of the LHW and CW Marcianos of the past 50 years that could benefit your argument?

 

Adamek beat a few heavyweights and even got a shot against Vitali (then he got destroyed), so he had some success.

Adamek was also far worse fighter than Marciano and no, his physical features are not much better than Rocky's. He's basically the size of Ezzard Charles. Without one tenth of Charles skills.

I'm not saying that Rocky would destroy Fury/Wilder/Josua/Ruiz in one night, but my point is that he would likely add a lot of weight to fight at heavyweight just like other small guys did. Toney was smaller than Marciano but he could weight over 220 lbs. Some mention that Toney weighed over 200 lbs before starting pro boxing, but Marciano was also over 200 lbs when he didn't train for fights.

 

Takam and Chisora faster and more skilled than Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore. Where do you have eyes?

 

Bigger, stronger athletes and probably PEDs are the big difference. I don't know about the amateur careers of guys like Takam or Chisora, but many of the big, strong, athletic heavyweights of today have extensive amateur careers. Takam and Chisora may just be strong, tough fighters who can give anybody problems or they might have big amateur backgrounds. I saw the Povetkin - Takam fight and it was one of the better heavyweight fights I'd seen. The pace, the skills, everything about the fight was impressive, and then to realize that one weighed 230 and the other over 250...

I don't know what caused the difference, maybe better athletes just got involved with boxing because the money got better or maybe PEDs and more/better training allowed bigger, stronger athletes to fight at heavyweight? When I watch a guy from the 50s who went undefeated, weighed 185 pounds, moved his right foot first when he moved to the left, leaned at the waist... it's like watching 1950s football or basketball, interesting to see what the sport was like at that time, but I don't wonder if the teams from that time could compete today. The best heavyweights of the 50s were the best of their era, just like whoever was the best of the NFL or NBA was the best of their time, but that time has passed.

 

Please don't use basketball as a comparison, because guys like Wilt Chamberlain or Jerry West would be superstars in today NBA...

 

Even Bill Miller spoke of Toney being a fit bruising footballer in high school at over 210 pounds.

 

Let's put burden of proof on Rocky Marciano who was a champion and proved himself consistantly. Well Rocky only weighed 188lbs yeah. Is it fair to say that Marciano didn't hit like the typical 188lb man? Maybe he hit quite a bit harder? That is just reality. He punched hard.
That doesn't me that I think he is going to stop McCall. By most accounts Oliver McCall took a great punch. That's a good trait for a sparring partner. He was tough, he can take a beating and he could stay in there. Tyson's glorified punching bag. I think what's getting lost is the fact that Oliver McCall wasn't that good. He couldn't fight that good, he didn't have a jab or the boxing skills to keep Rocky on the outside. He wasn't a great infighter. He didn't throw a lot of punches. He was strong and he gave good work to the top fighters. If it was a bodybuilding contest or powerlifting, perhaps wrestling, yes I could see people picking McCall.
Otherwise his 15 punches a round are not going to put Marciano anywhere but the winner's Circle.

 

Hits harder? Are you mad? The punches that Rahman and McCall hit Lewis with were much harder than the ones Moore and Walcott did

 

When was Marciano hit by a 238lbs ranked heavyweight in his prime ?